Hello 2+2,

I will try to let the first post really short so you guys can get it and in the next post I show all the proofs and evidences.

The history is that:
10 of May in the soccer saffari final - portuguese final I got heads up against a player. This player after some research and some suspicious was found to be a guy playing in the girlfriend account. The guy had also scammed in some other poker forums so was easy to get some info that proof that the guy was using the girlfriend account.
After he had the account locked he even confessed in the mails.
Ive sended it all to pokerstars and they decision is thats nothing wrong.

So after that I think that everyone is allowed to use other person account.


(next post i will put the mails that ive sended to stars and pictures)

The mail:

Hello,
I played the Portuguese Final for Poker Saffari. I got heads up against the player "Fwaffy" . We tried to do a deal them we went to msn to talk. During this chat I got suspicious that fwaffy was not the real owner of the account. I will post in sequence all the evidences that I found and even the later confession of "fwaffy" .

1- used a portuguese term that only guys use . fwaffy said: "eu sou o fwaffy" . In portuguese if you are a girl you use "eu sou A fwaffy". Was also using portuguese terms that only guys use. It was soo clearly that I got confuse after I asked his name and he told me that his name was "Rita". Wich is a girls name.
2- the msn that he used to speak with me was which a guy nickname (johhnyboy) thats commun for Joao here. Thats a guy name. Fwaffy clans thats using boyfriend msn and thats why.
3- I searched around internet and found fwaffy in a stake forum. in this forum he was registered with two accounts: fwaffy and ILOVEURITA(?!?!?) . Rita being the name of the real account owner. In this forum he is also treated as a guy and had scammed some person.
4- He posted some screenshots in this forum proving that fwaffy really uses msn.
5- I found they real mails and emailed them. The guy answered me saying that his account got blocked and sended me a printscreen(attached bellow) with the mail received from pokerstars.
6- the guy keep talking as a guy and confess that he wasn't using his own ID and now have the account blocked. He clans that never received the money.
7- I got a reply from his real mail at the same time as the mail that he uses to speak with me.


Even with the confession, the mails, the print screens, the logs and everything PS send me a mail saying that it wasn't anything wrong with the account.

So the problem is: the guy show me that the account is blocked, and I show proofs that the guy was playing using his girlfriend name and PS tell me that is everything ok?

Am i wrong to think that ive been scammed/cheated ?

Bellow theres a list of evidences and also the mails that they been using.

a.rita.c.lopes@gmail.com
luckypokerstar20@hotmail.com
apocalipsecaladinho@gmail.com

images:












After that all being showed I think that Pokerstars had way too much reasons to research this till the truth comes. They didint. I Always said that I could proof that all my material and proofs are legit. And IMO thats another proof of how insecure can be play online.
So, if you have a friend who is good at poker, and you go deep in a tourney, you should call him to come play for you, because even if you confess it later, pokerstars will not consider that as a violation to the rules.


So with this + chinese poker collusion im really rethinking about my condition of being a regular at ps.

sorry if i cant explain it in english correctly, but the idea is that you can use other players to play for you. and even with proofs that it wasnt you, pokerstars wont do anything. the guy multiaccounted, being caught and PS did not take any decision against him.

Yes sorry, I missed some of what you were saying that was clearer after looking at the images after you finished posting them. You might wish to post the email you received back from Stars that claims there was no multiaccounting.

Every poker site has and will have colluders. Stars should be applauded for taking a proactive approach in stopping them. For all we know, no other site gives a ****.

As for your OP, it sounds like pretty damning evidence, what I'm wondering is how can Stars actually verify that any of it is real? If anybody could make all of this up and get someone banned (and even potentially stripped of a big tourney cash) I'd be a bit worried about the implications of that.

I'm not trying to justify what this guy did, because if your allegations are true he deserves the max punishment afforded for multi-accounters in tournaments.

But do you not see the issue with taking action with unverifiable "evidence"?

Can any of these allegations be verified?

^^^^

I know thats hard to proof that evidences on internet. But I do think thats possible. some ways:

- the mails can be seen as teamview or any other program like this to proof that they are real
- i think that the mails also have in the code the ip of the sender no? I think its possible to check it and check with the logs in Pokerstars client.
- they can ask me for my msn logs and check the times of the message and see that the actions are sincronized with the player.

other important things: the guy in the msn sended me some info like name, mail and cellphone that are the right ones of the owner of the account.

I still don't get it. Why are you negotiating over MSN/e-mail and not at the tables? and what?

we made a deal in the tourney so we went to msn to get info like cellphone/adress this kind of things. also because there was spam in the chat due to observers.

Logs and emails in and of themselves are not solid evidence because they can easily be faked completely from scratch. If those logs and emails contain verifiable information about the scammer that you would otherwise have no way of knowing then we are on to something.

If the latter is true, I hope Stars takes a much harder look at this and gives us all a more satisfactory response. If this information is verifiable I see no reason why this guy shouldn't be banned and have his tourney prize revoked and have everyone else moved up in the ranks.

Just out of curiosity though, why do you need to exchange private information at all? Doesn't Stars support deals at the table through some official means?

P.S. You can turn off observer chat

if stars want to check at the logs or even use a teamviewer im fine with that. I already told them. For this tourney deals are not supported by ps. we did called them. thats why we went to msn. i dont even know who gave that idea . im not a tourney player.

Teamviewer isn't going to help anything since if you went to the trouble of faking the images you could easily go to the trouble of faking the logs. The only real way of verifying that the logs are real is to obtain them from a legitimate, non-biased third-party source.

Unfortunately I'm now realizing that even if the private information you have on him in the logs can be verified against his PS account and there is enough reason to believe that you had no other way of obtaining it, it still only proves that you exchanged private information and doesn't actually prove that the rest of the logs aren't faked.

I hate to play devil's advocate here, because if what you are saying is true this guy needs to be punished.

But there is really no way to truly verify that the information you are presenting has not been falsified, short of obtaining it directly from the hosting company that facilitated the transfer of the information. And as much as I'd like to see justice served in this case, I believe it is much more important to protect innocent players from false accusations than it is to punish cheaters.

If Stars were to take action in every case where someone sent them "evidence" of cheating, any one of us could be falsely accused and banned if they don't go to great lengths to ensure the evidence is legit.

i cant really fake emails, becuz its in the hotmail server. Some images are sended by him..that proof that he was using the other account. and also proof the legitimace of images. My point is: if pokerstars want, they can get to the truth..but it doesnt seem like that.

I haven't read all the discussion, so apologies if this is irrelevant, but in some situations playing on someone elses account is fine - basically if the account owner is playing in a tournament and an unforeseen circumstance requires someone to take over.

its in extreme situations. not this case. this guy been using her account for long... even scammed another people in another forum(some issues with stakes and not paying tha bakers..)

ps doesnt want to see this and probally dont want to ban him just cause of the problems with the tickets probally...(prizes were nominal tickets)

this is not suspicious at all.....

level?

Nope. I can send you an email that would appear to be from his email address right now and it would show up in your email inbox as if it were from him. Having it on the hotmail server proves nothing.

That being said, there comes a point where it becomes so unlikely that someone managed to fake it all that I would expect Stars to at least dig deeper with their own methods. Regardless, it would be nice to hear an official response from Stars as to why they are not taking action in this case.

Really? Can you link to this rule? I was under the impression that playing on someone else's account was strictly forbidden with no exceptions.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/rules/

"Examples of things which are beyond your control and therefore allowed, subject to PokerStars being able to corroborate with evidence, include:

1. A thunderstorm strikes your location and takes the power down for the surrounding area, so you call a friend to take over your account while you make alternative arrangements.
2. Your child is taken ill and you have to attend hospital, so you call a friend to take over your account.
3. You are playing in a tournament and lose internet access in your home due to a failure of your ISP. You call a friend and he takes over while you make alternative arrangements."

Wow, wtf? What is the logic behind allowing this? Sure it sucks when something out of your control renders you unable to finish playing the tournament, but I'm a bit shocked that Stars would ever consider it a good idea to allow someone else to finish it for you. I'd hate to be the guy having to decide on a case-by-case basis which "things which are beyond your control" are legitimate for this ruling.

Do live tournaments ever allow someone else to finish playing for you when "things which are beyond your control" make it impossible for you to finish?

Let me see if I got this str8...

1st, what was the prize on the mtt? I fail to get that from the OP.

Also, OP says PS took no action, but villain says in the emails that PS actually blocked his acc and did not pay the prize. It looks like PS knows about the MAing, blocked villain's acc but refuses to give the prize to the runner-up (OP). Is this correct?

If PS concludes the acc "Fwaffy" was violationg the ToS during the play of that game, the prize should be awarded to the runner-up, no?

That is what they have done in the past. Hopefully things work out for you.

-prize was tickets to world cup + expenses
-ps told me that is everything ok with them...that they werent violating the rules
- i am the runner up..thats why I think they dont believe in what ive said..


but most of the things that i showed here can be proof..even the links to the other forums are there. ips and everything can be checked with the other forum also. the mails i think can be proof with the hotmail confirmation I think.
i really think that ps is being lazy to resolv this issue.
even in some mails the guy admited that was using more than one account.

thats why i put the tittle of the topic like that...

and alsoo if they had take any action against fwaffy i would had received something..i didint...so it means that they didint did anything even with all the evidence.
they should at least check that its the truth ...the guy even admited

And once again Stars security are conspicuous by their absence itt.

Do they actually exist?

Or are they in fact mythical creatures like unicorns, with secret powers that can only exist in the imagination?

Or perhaps they're just donkeys wearing tall thin pointy hats.....

3 days without any answer in the mail also....
and almost 1 month since the first mail.

The title of this thread is way off mabye 'stars do nothing about a ma'ing scammer'?

Seriously, these over the top thread titles instantly just make me lose any sympathy for the OP. Be reasonable.

i cant edit it. i dont mind if mods do.