PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012 - Page 70 - Internet Poker

yesright · 12-29-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

There are a few issues that I would like to comment on further.

Much good faith effort was put into designing rake changes, with the intention of improving the rake balance. This would have resulted in decreases in rake, both overall and for most individual players. These rake changes were designed as a whole, not as three separate changes. While we expected some people to be happy and others to be disappointed by the changes, we didn't expect the extreme negative reaction to this overall decrease. There was no ploy to introduce and then cancel the changes.

The response of many players to the announcement was not to ask for an explanation, but instead to plan a strike based around incorrect conclusions about the rake changes. After seeing players' unexpected negative reactions, we felt the right thing to do was to cancel the changes. We will still engage in dialog with players over the coming days about the rake change, including explaining the impact more thoroughly.

We are proud to offer the lowest overall rake of any major online poker site and a comprehensive, transparent VIP Club that rewards all real money players. We look forward to further discussions with the community about the change to the weighted contributed method, which will not be reversed to the dealt method. Contrary to some posts, this method does provide a benefit to a large number of players.
We will discuss potential rake and VIP adjustments with the community in the coming months. This will take some time. In the meantime, constructive discussion about these topics will be helpful.

We will also be happy to host a few representatives from the poker community on the Isle of Man to review numbers in much more depth, provided that they agree to sign appropriate non-disclosure agreements regarding sensitive data.

That statement is a bit bizarre to say the least.

You are reducing some people earnings as much as 20-30% and you didnt expect a negative reaction?

What if you recieved an email overnight telling you your wages are going to be cut 30%?

Not sure you would be very happy about it especially if you had worked hard in 2011, been a loyal employee and earned your company a lot of money with your efforts.

Thats how a lot of people are feeling right now.

I have been one of Stars biggest supporters, if you aint winning me over with these statements you might be on the wrong path.

JonIrenicus · 12-29-2011, 07:58 PM

Steve,
I'd like us to have a calm discussion with you about the changes, some of the players are too angry to be able to do that unfortunately.
The thing about WC is ok: it's a slightly fairer system but you take VPPs from high vip level players and give them to low vip level players that have a low multiplier. You are taking from 5x fpp players and giving them to 1.5x players.
Does it seem unreasonable that most of us think this is a money grab?
Lack of communication on your part might be a problem as well. You didn't say anything along the line of: ok, this is the difference in $$$(fpps) that Stars takes out of the system with WC, we'll use all this $$$ to promote, give more bonuses, etc.
Can you comment on this? (I explained in a civilized way, I didn't threaten to go on strike or anything, I'd like a constructive discussion)

DiggertheDog · 12-29-2011, 07:59 PM

Pokerstars changes

Step 1.
Botch the announcement date
Step 2
Leave regulars in the dark
Step 3
Make a completely unreasonable cash grab
Step 4
Respond to unreasonable cash grab by making it worse
Step 5
Blame the regulars for being unreasonable
Step 6
Announce no changes to the worst part of the change but PS will compromise on the stuff that does not really effect the cash grab
Step 7
Have daniel negreanu - known and outted PS shill - say just chill out
Step 8
Have unknown players who can somehow access the Isle of Man (lol) with secret data
Step 9
PS keeps all changes they want
Step 10
Regulars sitout.

krmont22 · 12-29-2011, 08:01 PM

Steve,

With the proposed changes, will Pokerstars give back more, less, or an equal amount of FPPs to the player pool?

Fergastra · 12-29-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hood

I think it's quite understandable people who react hastily when announcements come days before they are implemented. SNE players actually plan full years around playing on pokerstars and a switch to WC does significantly change people's plans - in poker and actual life decisions.

There was a vocal group that opposed the rake structure changes, but what most people oppose is the switch to weighted-contributed and there was little in the way of explanation as to why there is a plan to switch.

The main criticism is not that WC redistributes VPPs differently; it's that across the entire player pool, significantly fewer _FPPs_ will be paid out - As VPPs will go to lower-tiered players with lower multipliers (you say so yourself in the OP). And in addition, these FPPs will be worth less as lower tiers players generally convert FPPs to a lower $ value in the store.

So goes the logic - overall, it is a significant reduction in the rewards PokerStars plan to pay out in 2012 across the player pool. Because it was not accompanied by broadly positive improvements (higher multipliers, milestones, stellar rewards etc), most people reacted that this was a "money grab".

If this assessment above is inaccurate, it would probably be best and simplest just to explain publicly why the above calculation is inaccurate - because this is a very common criticism of the switch from dealt to WC. The same discussion occurred when FT did it, and when party did it, and it's why the forum is in an uproar now.

And it would be better than flying someone out to the IoM and signing NDAs to look at player data.

I admire you being able to write such a reasonable post at such a confusing time.

+1great post!

Rat Race · 12-29-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

Steve,

With the proposed changes, will Pokerstars give back more, less, or an equal amount of FPPs to the player pool?

The obvious response to this question right here sums up all thats wrong with the changes PS is trying to pull.

chavarie · 12-29-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

Steve,

With the proposed changes, will Pokerstars give back more, less, or an equal amount of FPPs to the player pool?

I would LOVE to see an answer to this question from Steve... I just guess it won't happpen.

JonIrenicus · 12-29-2011, 08:13 PM

And the second issue I'd like to ask you about:
with WC and current rake CAP games are dead. Look around: there is no winner at 0.5-1 cap and bellow. Every reg is losing at the tables.
At 1-2 cap there are only very few regs that break even and even they are lately on a slightly losing trend.
Those games will die, surely you can understand the CAP player frustration.
Then those regs will shortstack 40bb on the regular tables, which already have 5 out of 9 shortstackers.
Do you see that with this you kill a game type and make the 40-100bb games a nightmare as well? And you offer nothing to offset this problem.
Only positive is this might save PLO from a shortstack takeover.

downgoesdown · 12-29-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmont22

Steve,

With the proposed changes, will Pokerstars give back more, less, or an equal amount of FPPs to the player pool?

hopefully they answer this

Shobun · 12-29-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downgoesdown

hopefully they answer this

in b4 "depends on your vip level"

aljufo · 12-29-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiggertheDog

Pokerstars changes

Step 1.
Botch the announcement date
Step 2
Leave regulars in the dark
Step 3
Make a completely unreasonable cash grab
Step 4
Respond to unreasonable cash grab by making it worse
Step 5
Blame the regulars for being unreasonable
Step 6
Announce no changes to the worst part of the change but PS will compromise on the stuff that does not really effect the cash grab
Step 7
Have daniel negreanu - known and outted PS shill - say just chill out
Step 8
Have unknown players who can somehow access the Isle of Man (lol) with secret data
Step 9
PS keeps all changes they want
Step 10
Regulars sitout.

Step 11
Regulars cashout

whamm · 12-29-2011, 08:20 PM

i wont sitout but ill have me and my friend play hu and do nothing but fold to eat some bandwidth. lol

Gregg777 · 12-29-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whamm

i wont sitout but ill have me and my friend play hu and do nothing but fold to eat some bandwidth. lol

And this is different than the tens of thousands of play money players how?

nota_bene · 12-29-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whamm

i wont sitout but ill have me and my friend play hu and do nothing but fold to eat some bandwidth. lol

lol, why?

zsky · 12-29-2011, 08:27 PM

I cant believe how stars is trying manipulate us!!!
for everybody sake I hope they will find fair a solution asap.