This.

That is actually not true, which I just realized.

Let's assume a mid stakes FR player who rakes 30k and gets 35% rakeback. Under dealt he had 36k MGR and got 12.6k rakeback, paying 17.4k in rake. With 4.5% rake and 2.5$ rake cap it's probably slightly more than 10% less rake. So let's say he pays 27k rake, gets 9.45k rakeback equalling to 17.55k rake paid. It's essentially the same, which kinda surprises me as well.

This would be even better for small stakes and way better for micro stakes if my suggestions were to be implemented.

I am aware however that overall rakeback percentages would be slightly smaller. It'd still be a good change considering that it benefits the player base as a whole a lot more.

Just curious, do those calculations include the fact that there will be taken the 4.5% from every dollar in the pot and not in steps like before?

Steve,

Where are you and where is this dialogue you wanted to have with the players?

the original proposals included the 4% linear rake before it was withdrawn. The irony is that for some pots below $0.60 it actually means an increase in rake that nano stake players will be paying. Not only are they getting hammered with high rake to start with , hardly getting any compensation in fpps on the vip scheme.

Could someone explain to me how the new WC is screwing everybody when they are still distributing the same amount of VPPs?

it's simple: same amount of VPPs but much less FPPs, because the ones with high FPP multipliers will get less VPPs

sure. they are moving the VPPs to players with low VIP status who have terrible FPP multipliers. the majority of rewards/rakeback comes from FPPs not VPP milestones. many rec players who are bronze stars or whatever presumably dont even use their points or use them on the stress ball/something dumb. they dont buy the 4k bonus, that is for sure.

end result = stars keeps many millions more of what they raked under the new system. in other words, the rake effectively goes up since the site is keeping far more of what they raked rather than giving it back to the players (putting it back in the economy)

My first reaction to linear rake was that it would be a rake increase that might be evened out by 4.5% for the most part, but that's really not the case. For any stake .5/1 or higher for example the rake by logic is always 10% lower unless if not close to the cap (the increments had been 1$). For 0.25/0.5 the rake is only higher in 3bb and 5bb pots and will decrease afterwards. For .02/.04 a few additional pots are being raked but after that only 19bb pots are raked 1c more.

It was actually quite decent. I don't know the implications for FL, but NL/PL did get improved. Of course people reacted quick and harsh when they noticed that 5 max rake got increased for no apparent reason.

But with the new rake changes actually being quite ok (even though not quite enough to compensate for WC I'd assume), it's so much more shocking that Pokerstars was willing to take them away just after one day to leave us with only bad changes. Just like that. You'd expect if they cared at all they would take their time to show us that in fact, the rake changes aren't that bad and maybe just consider to change the 5-max rake back.

But they have always been stealing those VPPs from other players who pay more rake right? Why should a player get better rakeback because they pay less rake?

the rake decreased and it's now by far the lowest online. i think this will more than compensate for the fpp loss.

most people arent arguing for dealt method. if we are getting weighted contributed, then stars can put in an offset (like raising the VPP multiplier per dollar raked to 6 up from 5.5). the VPP multiplier is a number stars just made up to give people an amount of rakeback that they predetermined. they have just lowered that number and are taking more out of the poker community.

you can agree w/ the switch to WC if you think dealt is stealing VPPs, that is not inconsistent w/ the gripes ITT. what you should be for imo is an increase to the multiplier to prevent stars from taking way way way more money for themselves. under WC+better multiplier, it can be more fair without absolutely raping all regs.

I call shenanigans on pokerstars part. Their is ZERO dialogue. They've been silent and are going to stay silent. Apart from the daily update of VPPs for the SNE's these guys are nowhere to be found. Way to GO!

Yes one might say that WC is better, but in that case, change the VPP multiplier so that stars pays the same amount as 2011 overall

note that on pokerstars.fr: they went to WC AND decreased the rakeback by 25% (instead of increasing it)

I'd also like to say I'd gladly fly to the Isle of Man (though I don't see how it is necesssary) to ensure that Stars is distributing the same amount of FPPs as before this change. That's really what people are asking for in the end. If you are distributing less FPPs, then bump the multiplier up to compensate for that so that you aren't anymore.

Or, lower the rake to compensate. Or up the value of FPPs to compensate. Or any other number of things that have been proposed.

This isn't rocket science Stars. If you are sincere, contact me and a few others, sit us down in a chat room, and I guarantee you we can hammer out something fair for everyone, including Stars, within 24 hours.

If you aren't sincere about caring about your players opinions, well then you can keep doing what you are doing. And then everyone loses.

the rake has been lowerd with 0,5% ?

Scumbags took away the lowering of the rake and said "were going to keep the WC method plans. Deal with it."

As others have already said previously they may have been giving away something like 5.5 VPP and 20FPP per hand. Now they will be giving away 5.5VPP and 10FPP per hand. That extra FPP has simply disappeared out of the poker economy and gone straight into Stars bank account.

One other major point others did not touch on is that the new system is also unfair. Winning players will now receive credit for less rakeback than they actually pay. If you win an all-in pot, you pay $3 in rake. Under weighted contributed you receive credit for $1.50, at most. Since winning players tend to win more than their fair share of pots, this bias adds up rapidly. In the longrun under weighted contributed as a winning player if you pay $1 in rake you will receive credit for less than $1 of rakeback.

Imagine if in an SNG where the rake was $10, that the winner of the SNG only got credit for $5 of rakeback, but the first person to bust got credit for $15 of rakeback. That is exactly the sort of system that weighted contributed is inflicting on the ring games. It's an incredibly unfair system. Yes, so was dealt - but replacing one unfair system with another unfair system isn't exactly progress.

Choice is simple, accept the changes and play extra 15-20% to get same RB or go play somewhere else/get a real job/or just go with it.

I'll still play at Stars but I'll be bitter. Less bitter than I am at FTP but slightly more than I am at Party.

Ive noticed a decline in customer support over the past 2 years and this is a culmination of that. I played on pstars long after ftp made changes to combat ssers out of loyalty hurting my bottom line. I now have no sort of loyalty to them and will happily take my business based 100% on what my expectation in the games offered are unless they make an honest attempt at making this right.

The fact that they removed the only good things to offset any changes as a response to our complaints is indicative of their disrespect to us as paying customers.

What a joke.

Your a settler. Youll bend over if they asked you to. Some of us dont take **** from no 1. Not even stars. They have a chance to make it right if not. GG you do you, we'll do us.

I can't wait for Zynga poker real money games to be launched.

This is the biggest threat to Pokerstars on the horizon. The people at Zynga aren't daft trust me, they will be watching what's happening here.

If they launch with a slightly better deal than Stars, then Zynga will overnight become the market leader in Poker. It makes it all the more astonishing that Stars chooses this moment to make a cash grab and treat what should be its most valuable players in this way.

I also think that the anger within the player pool will grow once people actually start playing and notice the 25% drop in VPP's. It's easy to talk about but when you see the reality it will hurt that bit more.

Come on Steve, get the dialogue going

Are the Russian nits still there in the LHE full ring games?

THISSSSS. If they believed the so-called rake reduction was an element of the changes that would be positive for the players, then why didnt they try to explain it more? They made no replies anywhere on 2p2 other than to take it away. Stars definitely seems to have changed its attitude toward the community lately. Lots of Steve's posts don't even sound customer service-y anymore. Seems like he has a lot of animosity for 2p2 IMO. Weird way to run a massively profitable business.

The change is obviously designed to make people play looser and thus generate more rake.

The change might actually be a good thing for 12/12 to 19/19 players. It will make the game unprofitable for the 5/5 ers. Encourage people to play more LAG so a good TAG will make money off these players. - Maybe.
My MGR is > than my Rake so I expect to earn less VPP's but I hope that is made up for by more profit at the table.