PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012 - Page 44 - Internet Poker

Starscream · 12-29-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

See guys, they do listen!

Thomas Luice · 12-29-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

some good news

Fergastra · 12-29-2011, 08:12 AM

Wow, thanks for listening Steve (atlhough I am inclined to believe you that the changes could have had some positive outcome).

So nothing changes rakewise, but VPP distribution method will change?

Wouldn't that still bring a considerable reduction in effective RB?

mikev · 12-29-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

I love you

Jkarioun · 12-29-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

while there might have been a decrease at 50nl for example, midstakes 5handed would have been massively affected

other rake caps changes were acceptable, it was just the 5 handed that was wrong imo

Eto Demerzel · 12-29-2011, 08:17 AM

So now you have effectively removed the rake decrease that full ring players would have gotten. And I thought things could not get any worse.

himomitsme · 12-29-2011, 08:18 AM

very glad to see that after all I won't get punished for playing more cash games (I play shorthanded). thank you.

Thomas Luice · 12-29-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

I calculated the new rake plan for FL1/2 and 2/4, each over 30k samples.
For FL 1/2, ~7% more rake
For FL 2/4, ~4-5% more rake

It was calculated by comparing how much raked for each hand. So it doesn't matter what your play style is.

If PS would rake more, how could be a decrease for a majority of players??

Locaskun · 12-29-2011, 08:21 AM

Hi pokerstar , i will be franck with you, why should change the system that made you the best room in the world? Just think about it, even if you don't change the rake (if you would many player would have leave just for this reason) , you change the VPP atribution system to make it fair .....
I am sorry but what do you mean by fair? You know that the VPP atribution since you pay the rake is cut off equally for everybody, i think this is the most fair solution, but now because of your change A LOT OF PEOPLE will lose money and me too in fact.
Maybe this is what you want since the fish will lose their money anyway with more VPP and the PRO will have less money .
So please can you just don't change anything , BELIEVE ME EVERY PLAYER WANT NO CHANGE!!!!!!
AND BELIEVE ME TOO MANY NEW PLAYER THAT I KNOW WANTED TO CHANGE TO POKERSTAR SINCE YOUR SYSTEM IS SO ****ING AWESOME!!!!

Now you want more money in the back of the good player for your pocket, just think about it, maybe you should think about getting more money with just only more people!!!!

pontylad · 12-29-2011, 08:22 AM

huh, the WC method is still a huge money grab without changes to the number of vpps distributed.

Thomas Luice · 12-29-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pontylad

huh, the WC method is still a huge money grab without changes to the number of vpps distributed.

explain it please~

Xela · 12-29-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

This is the worst of the outcomes. While I supported the changes when the included the changes in rake, I do actually now reject the change to weighted on its own.

I think you should not listen to some misinformed few that do not understand the impact of your changes and make the most noise. Instead you should communicate better. Or maybe just take back the cap change for 5handed play or keep it and soften it up with a change to 6VPP.

Locaskun · 12-29-2011, 08:27 AM

Please pokerstar believe me even if the rake don't change many of your best player , and new player who wanted to be regular will not go to your room because its not worth it now, anyway an answer would be good

.Because now since the rakeback will be like the other room ( and they are MOOORREEEEEEEE FISH on other room like everestpoker or winamax in france) why should we stay in pokerstar , just thik about it we are not idiot, we are poker player so we know when we lose money and where we can win more money and now it would be not your room since it will be like the other but with much more regular.

Starscream · 12-29-2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredjackson

So we get more rake and 20%+ less vpps for 24 tablers? so like a 30% salary reduction overnight. And where does that money go? Oh it goes to PS. F U

Cut down on the tables and concentrate on actually playing some poker. Why should you get VPP's when you don't contribute to the pot?

TheRattler · 12-29-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

Thats the biggest issue. 20% less VPP's .. thats a salary reduction for every Supernova and Supernova Elite. Make our lives 20% harder to cater to bottom feeding fish. Well done. Scrap the plan entirely for gods sake.