Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Internet Poker Discussions of Internet poker venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2011, 11:19 AM   #1
PokerStars Steve
PokerStars Poker Room
 
PokerStars Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 3,002
PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Thank you all for your patience in waiting for this announcement of VIP changes effective January 1, 2012. Details of planned changes in ring game rake are also included below as they may impact players’ playing plans in 2012.


Change from ‘Dealt’ to ‘Weighted Contributed’

VPP earnings at ring games will be calculated using the ‘weighted contributed’ method, changing from the ‘dealt’ method. The weighted contributed method awards VPPs to each player based on how much they contribute to the pot. You can read more about the weighted contributed calculation on the PokerStars website.

Ring game players will be affected differently by this change depending on their play style. Some players will earn VPPs faster while others will earn them more slowly. The total number of VPPs given out as a result of each hand is the same using the ‘weighted contributed’ and ‘dealt’ calculations.

While each player is different, overall the weighted contributed method will reward players with lower VIP statuses more and players with higher VIP statuses less. In summary this change will make the distribution of VIP Club benefits more balanced, less top heavy toward Supernova+ VIPs. Players earning a higher VIP status will still earn points faster and gain more and better options for redeeming FPPs.

Weighted Contributed vs. Winner Take All

Winner take all (WTA) is another method of awarding VPPs that was suggested by some players. We considered WTA, but decided that weighted contributed is a superior method of allocating VPPs after a thorough evaluation of both options.

The WTA method results in significantly more volatility in player VPP earnings from session to session and day to day. This can make it more difficult for players to plan their play based on expected VPP earnings. Players may also psychologically feel that it is unfair that when taking a bad beat they lose not only the pot but also all VPP earnings for the hand. On a larger scale, players experiencing a session with particularly negative results may not appreciate earning far fewer VPPs than anticipated in addition to losing funds at the tables.

We did review the differences in how the weighted contributed and winner take all methods would award VPPs to players in the long run. While individual players would earn VPPs at different rates due to differing play styles, as a group the members of each VIP level would see no material difference in the number of VPPs earned between the weighted contributed and winner take all methods.


Changes to Ring Game Rake

Rake Calculation Method
Ring game rake will now be calculated as a true percentage using round half to even rounding. This is a change from the past incremental rake calculations.

The change to true percentage rake will make rake calculation more transparent and intuitive for players. Instead of three rake components (%, increment, and cap) we will have two components (% and cap).

If rake caps and percentages were to remain the same, changing to true percentage rake would result in an increase in rake taken due to the change in rounding. However, we are altering rake percentages downward for all stakes and betting types, reduced from 5% to 4.50% or less. The change to true percentage rake has the most impact on microstakes games. Similarly, the reduction in rake percentages and/or caps is greatest at microstakes games.

As an example, the rake at $0.25/$0.50 NLHE with 6 players dealt in used to be $0.05 for each $1.00 in the pot up to a maximum of $3.00. The new rake for such hands will be 4.5% up to $3.00. The below table shows the old rake and new rake for these types of hands with four different pot sizes:



Rake caps have also been changed, some lowered and some increased, to make them more consistent across different stakes, game types, and currencies.

Rake percentages and caps are being set such that we expect a small overall decrease in site rake assuming that play remains the same. You can see the new rake tables at the bottom of this post.

Fixed Limit Rake with Two Players Dealt In

The rake cap for fixed limit ring game hands dealt to exactly two players has in the past been different depending on whether or not the hand is dealt at a designated heads-up table. Effective January 1st, rake for heads-up play will be consistent across tables at the same stakes with differing numbers of seats.

Euro Currency Rake

Caps at Euro currency tables are also being adjusted to more closely match rake on USD currency tables given the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies. Rake percentages at EUR tables will match the percentages at similar USD tables.


VPP Awarding at Euro Currency Tables

VPP Multipliers for Euro Currency tournaments and ring games are being modified based on the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies as follows:

Tournaments and ring games with 7 and fewer seats: 7x
Ring games with 8 or more seats: 8x
PL/NL €0.01/€0.02: 12x
PL/NL €0.02/€0.05: 10x
PL/NL €0.05/€0.10: 8.5x

The number of FPPs per Euro of reward in a standard FPP satellite to a EUR currency tournament will be reduced from 85 to 81, making FPPs used in such tournaments more valuable.


Implementation

All of the above changes are planned for implementation in the first days of 2012, Eastern (US) Time


PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee

PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee players who are playing ring games and tournaments shared with PokerStars.com players will be subject to the same rake and tournament fees including the weighted contributed method of awarding ring game VPPs. VPP Multipliers and other VIP Club Rewards will be announced separately for each of these licenses.


Additional Changes
We recognize that the annual basis of Supernova+ VIP Status, VIP Stellar Rewards, and Milestone Cash Credits results in many players planning their PokerStars play at the start of each year based on the game conditions and VIP Program rewards at that time. We cannot guarantee that there will not be meaningful VIP Program changes during the year, but every attempt will be made to avoid such midyear changes that could have a significant negative impact on players’ plans.

We do not plan any significant changes to ring games offerings at this time other than the planned addition of a fast moving ring games product sometime in the first quarter of 2012.

Additional 6-player and 9-player hyper turbo Sit & Go Tournaments are still under consideration for deployment in January 2012. Players will be notified in these forums in advance of such additions. Sit & Go offerings will continue to be evaluated periodically throughout the year resulting in changes being made as needed.


Rake Tables





PokerStars Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:20 AM   #2
Ijizz
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hot girls, Cold winters
Posts: 1,651
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

seems good?
Ijizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:23 AM   #3
Rat Race
newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 40
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

second

Funny how a couple hours ago they had no relevant info to give out or any possible deadline

Last edited by Rat Race; 12-28-2011 at 11:25 AM. Reason: triple slowroll range merging?
Rat Race is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:24 AM   #4
Perfection
veteran
 
Perfection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being Set Mined
Posts: 2,324
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

3rd

Better than a TV ad imo.. time to read
Perfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:26 AM   #5
Roger Mainfield
Big Raaaaaaj
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chattering
Posts: 5,192
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Changes look good at first glance.
Roger Mainfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:27 AM   #6
eQuaNiMity
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 88
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Finally out yaahh... I want to read it but its 2:27 am in Aus +_+
eQuaNiMity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:29 AM   #7
Sharkament
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 463
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

So the big change is nothing fun? just rake stuff..
Sharkament is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:31 AM   #8
hypetothemax
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

From Pokerstars Steve : "While each player is different, overall the weighted contributed method will reward players with lower VIP statuses more and players with higher VIP statuses less. In summary this change will make the distribution of VIP Club benefits more balanced, less top heavy toward Supernova+ VIPs. Players earning a higher VIP status will still earn points faster and gain more and better options for redeeming FPPs"

Congrats on the money grab. Way to stick it to your loyal rake generating base. Makes total sense to give more to your less loyal rake generating players. I am starting to move my money off the site today as we speak and plan on taking my business elsewhere as this plan will take away approximately $7800 away from me if I were to play on Pokerstars. Congrats on losing $250,000 in rake paid.
hypetothemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:33 AM   #9
Jkarioun
old hand
 
Jkarioun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,338
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

finally
Jkarioun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:36 AM   #10
badbeatLOL
journeyman
 
badbeatLOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 319
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Why is no word to be found about the discrepancy between VPP multiplier between SH and FR games? When will we SH and SNG players get our 6x VPPs????
badbeatLOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:37 AM   #11
chavarie
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,126
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

LOL nice money grab
chavarie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
meow_meow
veteran
 
meow_meow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,161
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

so, straight up money grab with a tiny rake break for the micros.

very disappointing
meow_meow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:38 AM   #13
Stormwolf
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,301
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

So you takes take forever to announce that will be harder and less rewarding to gun for higher VIP status. Awesome
Stormwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:39 AM   #14
Theodorus
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 527
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

What about PokerStars.fr?
Theodorus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:42 AM   #15
dybboss
old hand
 
dybboss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: trenches
Posts: 1,454
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

15$/30$/60$ 9man hypers plsssssssssssssssssssssssss
dybboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:42 AM   #16
lunapark
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 232
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by badbeatLOL View Post
Why is no word to be found about the discrepancy between VPP multiplier between SH and FR games? When will we SH and SNG players get our 6x VPPs????
If you are moving away from the dealt method, and into WC shouldn't Shorthanded tables be given 6 vpps instead of 5.5. It now has nothing to do with number of players, just amount of money we put in. If this doesn't change it makes even less sense for us to play SH.
lunapark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:43 AM   #17
meow_meow
veteran
 
meow_meow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,161
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunapark View Post
If you are moving away from the dealt method, and into WC shouldn't Shorthanded tables be given 6 vpps instead of 5.5. It now has nothing to do with number of players, just amount of money we put in. If this doesn't change it makes even less sense for us to play SH.
don't be silly, the whole point of the change is for them to pay out less rewards, not more.
meow_meow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:44 AM   #18
sexyjesus
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Euroland
Posts: 1,112
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

At 1st glance looks like it's great news for micro players.
sexyjesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:45 AM   #19
rugmuncher
old hand
 
rugmuncher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: getting into photography
Posts: 1,732
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

goodbye cash, hello mtt

BIG as in BIGGEST f up in history of online poker.
rugmuncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #20
guidosuller
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 49
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

mass sit out plz, anyone opening the thread??

What´s the point of rewarding more the less loyal people?
guidosuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #21
Arxontas
grinder
 
Arxontas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 506
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

the dreadful news has finally arrived
Arxontas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #22
Budhud
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 135
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Nice way to **** your most loyal players And just as FTP is about to re-enter market BRAVO STARS !
Budhud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #23
Perfection
veteran
 
Perfection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being Set Mined
Posts: 2,324
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
While each player is different, overall the weighted contributed method will reward players with lower VIP statuses more and players with higher VIP statuses less. In summary this change will make the distribution of VIP Club benefits more balanced, less top heavy toward Supernova+ VIPs.
Although Stars get some credit for outright admitting it, this is an awful statement. Those players with higher VIP statuses also play 10x-1000x (really not an exaggeration considering some SNEs play 3M+ hands/yr) of the volume of those people with the lower VIP levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
If rake caps and percentages were to remain the same, changing to true percentage rake would result in an increase in rake taken due to the change in rounding. However, we are altering rake percentages downward for all stakes and betting types, reduced from 5% to 4.50% or less.

[...]

Rake percentages and caps are being set such that we expect a small overall decrease in site rake assuming that play remains the same. You can see the new rake tables at the bottom of this post.
Im interested in somebody crunching the numbers on this.

Obviously correct that true % is a rake increase in real terms and your rake reduction will offset this. However, rake will only really be saved considerably in pots of size $40 - $100, which seems a pretty narrow spectrum of reduction. Im not sure this offsets the value people are going to lose from only getting 75-90% of their VPPs.
Perfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:47 AM   #24
punter11235
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: solving poker
Posts: 6,685
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

At least micros are playable now probably. That's positive thing and move in right direction.
SSNL/low MSNL is being killed though. It's a pity management wasn't more bold and "rescue" those games a bit too at the cost of increasing rake at HSNL.

Also, wasn't a rake cap with 5 players at 2$ before? It's huge change if you just increased it to 3$. I mean, it should be 2$ for 6players in the first place at least up to 2/4. 6max guys are really killed by rake.
Anyway, looks like bumhunting era for me No way I play 16 tables of MSNL CAP as I planned to get SNE under those conditions
punter11235 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2011, 11:49 AM   #25
happyeaster
adept
 
happyeaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 720
Re: PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012

so good news for a micro noob like me
happyeaster is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online