Alright, this is going to be a bit tl;dr but I need to address this situation.

Pokerstars just permanently locked my account. I will describe the facts that led to this below, along with a full communications-log of my emails back and forth with support. I know all of you here have read a lot of these topics, mostly ones in which the topicstarter did not give full disclosure of what happend and was in fact guilty. I am not. I'm going to present the facts below and I hope this topic leads to Pokerstars realising they made a mistake. There is simply no way someone at Stars can, from these facts, conclude that I did anything wrong, and I seriously wonder how and why the security agent came to his conclusion. Ok, here we go.

I have been a headsup player on Pokerstars for a long time. Yes, I am one of those 'bumhunters' that wait for heads up action on sites, Pokerstars is one of them. I sit on 1/2 up to 10/20. I have done so for years, which Pokerstars should be able to verify. I have played and won vs numerous unknown accounts.

At Jan 21th I recieved an email from investigation@pokerstars.eu in my native language (so i'm going to summarize this for you) stating: your account is locked, you have been flagged, tell us whats your relationship to these accounts is and send in a passport-scan + proof of residence:

olgvomn
gorjigWC
mortatidis
bimdarg
Palyonmes
reximosa
Lanlingo

to which I replied: I'm a headsup player that got action from these accounts on 5/10 PLO and one on 10/20 PLO, i won vs all of them, it didn't seem like they played superbad, it just seemed like standard weak headsup players which i play all day every day. And I sent the passport-scan + proof of residence as requested.

So what happend: I just sat on headsup PLO tables as i've done for numerous days, waiting for action, got action from these accounts, played them, won money from them. The last account (I dont remember which) even hitran me, joined to others on 10/20 PLO that sat out, joined me on 10/20 PLO again, after which I won his money. I did not know these accounts. I have no relationship with said accounts. None. These accounts were just randoms that I play every day.


After my reply on Jan 24th I have not heard a single thing from investigations@pokerstars.eu anymore. They did not confirm they recieved the documents requested, they didn't tell me a timeframe, nothing. They just ceased communication althogether. I have sent 4 emails as replies to their original email asking for a timeframe or ANY sort of update, but nothing.

On Jan 29th I send an email to support@pokerstars.eu:

They replied on Jan 31th:

To which i replied on Jan 31th:

It took support@pokerstars.eu untill Feb 8th to send a reply to this:

To which I replied on Feb 9th:

To which they replied on feb 9th:

After that, communication ceased altogether. I asked Lee Jones via PM and email to look into this. He replied promptly on Feb 21th:

To which I replied:

Still believing this should all be solved soon, I got the following email today:

To which I just replied:

So, I am seriously shaking right now. The facts in this case are: I am a headsup player. I got action vs unknown accounts (that were possibly hacked, but there was and is no way for me to know if that's the case). I won from unknown accounts. I get banned. And yes, I know some of you, that have read a lot of these topics, probably think: Right, you just opened a headsup table and let a hacker chipdump to you. I did not. I have been a professional poker player for 6/7 years. I have played strictly headsup for the last 5 years. I have sat on Stars' headsup tables for a long time, played vs a lot of players.

Lastly, Stars did not even confiscate the funds I have won from alledged hacked accounts. My balance is exactly what it was after I last closed the client. So, this must mean they concluded I have won that money fair and square. Yet, they someone found a reason to ban my account forever. I simply can't think of ANY reason for them to do so.

So, if any of you guys have ANY sort of advice, who to contact, what to do, I'm open to any suggestions possible. I am innocent, I need Stars to look into this again and I need this resolved. Please help.

You win too muvh money. They have to start purging winning players for the almighty dollar.

Good luck

Maybe they banned you because you are not only a bumhunter, but also an awful person. You are well known grimmer and all around scummy player. Stars have said they would crack down on this kind of behavior. You didn't listen and now you are banned. Karma.

The only thing that can come to my mind is this is not a hacking situation but a charge back one where in this case all of these players did a charge back and all of these players decided to play against you and only you HU.

What are the odds that they'd just play with you? That's what Stars would be thinking... are u friends with these people... was it only 1 person with 6 fake accounts? Regardless why did he pick just you to play with.

The above is all speculation but I have a hard time believing 6 honest accts. were hacked simultaneously and they all played you.

You're only defense would be to say that this must be a conspiracy organized by another reg who wants you off the site and he had 6 accts. opened to be rid of you.

Since others are basically calling you a POS I'd focus on this as a strong defense

I don't grimm, I have never done this. Grimming is forbidden on Stars and they actively police this. I am not that stupid. So please don't post nonsense.

If this was the case, wouldn't they have confiscated the funds I won vs them? They didn't, my balance is there as it was when they locked my account and I'm able to cashout these funds.

I don't think it's a conspiracy from a fellow reg. What i think is the case, is that someone hacked these 6 accounts, picked me to play first, lost vs me, then decided 'ok fk this guy i'm going to beat him' and joined me with his other hacked accounts.

I don't see how that's my fault in any way.

Your last part is why you get to keep your money. If Stars 100% knew you were guilty u wouldn't get a penny. Because there is a slimmer of doubt they let you keep your funds.

Once again this is all pure speculation as I have no idea your history/info nor do I have any info on the people that lost to you.

stars said they are going to come down hard on bumhunters/grimers , which you admittedly are, and ignored

from a business standpoint, u are bad for business, and stars needs to uphold its integrity.

see ya

This makes little sense. There's no 'being 50% guilty'. You either are 100% guilty of doing what they accused you of, or you are innocent. There's no middle way here.

If this were the reason and they went about it in this manner Stars would be the one with no integrity.

It's obv. his griming/bumhunting has nothing to do with this case.

I am not a grimmer, grimming on Stars is strictly forbidden in TOS, and I have never done this. Being a sort of bumhunter (I still play 95% of anyone that sits me) is not against any TOS, or if so, 90 percent of stars would be banned. Please stop posting random hate.

I'm not saying I disagree with you in principle. This doesn't come down to principle... it comes down to risk assessment over dollars and cents.


"I'm a man of principles, and if you don't like them I have others"
-An honest politician

Of course there is. Stars has the right to refuse anyone's business, so it's entirely possible that they have concerns and/or suspicions about you that they can't prove, and have therefore decided to no longer do business with you.

Even if it's not against their TOS, bumhunting or other "predatory" play could have something to do with it. Again, they can refuse your business for any reason they like, as long as it isn't on grounds that break the law (race, gender discrimination, etc).

The biggest hurdle for you is probably to figure out why they're sending you off, and try to address that. It may be that this is a final decision that you're not going to be able to appeal, but you'll have a better chance if you are able to determine the reason.

And remember that ultimately, you're at their mercy here, and need to be very diplomatic with how you approach this if you want a shot.

I really hope this is meant as hyperbole; whatever you do, don't use this as an argument for getting back on. Based on the # of players, I bet the number is <1%. Based on volume, it would of course be higher but nothing even remotely close to 90% - that's way, way, beyond ridiculous. As I type this, I realize that of course it has to be hyperbole, but even if you reduce it to a reasonable number, I'd suggest avoiding the use of that in any pleas to get your account reopened.

I have replied to their last email asking for an explanation, so I hope they are willing and able to present me one. I still can't think of one myself. The session I played that day went the exact same way my previous ~1000 sessions went in the past 5 years.

Regarding predatory behaviour: I play about 95% of everyone that sits me HU. I don't see how that's predatory, as nearly every headsup regular does the same. I'm really sure this has nothing to do with this case.

And yes, i will be diplomatic and polite about this.

Fear not Ivanhoe, take your roll to Ipoker, they welcome bumhunters with open arms

Of course it's hyperbole. But you must not have been watching Stars 2/4+ a lot, as yes, a very, very large amount of regulars above these stakes bumhunt to some degree, use seating scripts, waitlist scripts, jesus-seat-scripts, etc. I'm not using it as an argument - I'm simply stating that if not playing the #1 regular headsup on your stake is what gets you banned, Stars should in fact instantly ban roughly 90% of every player opensitting a headsup table.

But lets not divert from the situation at hand here.

I think that if they took your money you would have a lot more recourse through a hearing process. They probably think that you are guilty but they don't have a rock solid case against you that would stand up to a hearing. As it is, they can probably simply state that you were a guest and ask you to leave without recourse. I'm not implying here, at all, that you actually are guilty.

I've spent the last hour thinking how it would be possible for them to think there's a 50% chance i'm guilty. As far as I can tell, I'm either 100% guilty, or 0%.

I mean, they can check the full hand history. They can compare ip-addresses i think. That seems to be about it. If they found any evidence of me being guilty of working together with these accounts, I'm sure they'd just confiscate the funds. They didn't, because there's absolutely no relationship between me and said accounts.

So, after looking at the evidence, they find exactly 0 evidence any foul play was committed. How can they still have any suspections or doubts about what happend? I really can't get my head around this.

Look the bottom line is they dont need to give you a reason to ban you from their site, its their business decision end of. Now go and do yourself a favour and take your bumhunting elsewhere!

Guess you dont need to post in the "PokerStars Heads Up Lobby Changes: Feedback Requested" thread anymore, lulz.

Everything you said might be true. It might suck. But as long as they're not refusing you service based on membership of a protected class (eg. in the USA, race, sex, religion, etc), then they have every right to ban you from playing, even with absolutely no evidence of wrongdoing.

Not saying they're right for doing so, or that they should...just that they can, and you have no recourse unless they say you do.

Thats news to me.

If setcho is right then wp stars.

One of the highest stakes limit players, a German whose nickname i forgot, got banned from Stars for this last year. So yes, grimming is forbidden, i know this, and I have never done so. The people posting hatefull comments in this thread are simply people that hate me for being outspoken so they will use every means to make me look bad. That's what you get for voicing your opinion i guess.

I'm gonna cease from responding to this from now, and wait if someone has actual advice as to how to handle this/who to contact to get a second opinion.

This.

I read the entire OP and thanks for starting this thread because it's definitely a reality check. I very seldom use the term "entitled" but that's exactly the mindset the vast majority of us likely have in regards to online poker, I know I have. It's sobering to realize any poker site could just reject our business at a whim, with the exception of discrimination. I mean it's fair and nothing really wrong with it because likewise we as players can reject them at our whim but I think this fact often gets overlooked.

Good luck getting your account reinstated OP and thanks again for the dose of reality.

So now I guess your gf/wife/mum/dad/brother/sister will start playing a lot of hu plo eh?