Pokerstars: April Meetings: Representative Reviews and Discussion - Page 13 - Internet Poker

pureklas · 04-21-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LazyAce

I will say this: I looked into Isai's eyes, and I told him the rake is too damn high.

To which he said?

PaperWalls · 04-21-2012, 04:41 PM

Another meeting, nothing new, nor good for any cash game player.

Thanks for nothing i guess.

Do it Right · 04-21-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CocteauTwin

DiR, I wuvs you but why are you being so bitter towards Reps? I don't think Reps in general deserve much heat because it was kinda obv nothing great would come out of the meetings, same as last time. I didn't even vote this time for that reason. I think Reps go and make an effort to make things better, if they come back with nothing then that's really down to Stars.

I really hope that's not what you got from my message. I don't see how even could.

I hold no antagonism for the reps whatsoever. It's very clear Alex went to this meeting with the players' interests weighing heavily on his mind, determined to do any and everything he could. But no matter how determined a man may be, he's not going to move a mountain through will power and optimism alone. Stars is stringing players along from delay to delay, and their using the player representatives - who are acting in good faith and trust - as pawns to do it for them. I certainly hold no ill will towards Alex at all. I feel sorry for him since I do believe he is trying to do all he can and feels like he is working for the betterment of players. But when you look at the bigger picture, Stars has managed to effectively change the "PokerStars Steve" screen name to "Alex Wice." Instead of Steve delivering promises of what may (or may not) come at some unclear and undefined time in the future, along with other promises of how great a company and how serious Stars is taking all this - we have Alex doing it. And in a few months we'll have another new face, full of optimism and enthusiasm, taking his place. And in the mean time any issues players have with Stars? Well their employees will divert it all to the player meetings. It's a very messed up system.

RigMeARiver · 04-22-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramps

The idea of eliminating the first two levels of normal/turbo SNGs and adding ~two to midgame is a very good one IMO. Maybe even start at 20/40 and copy the hypers blind structure (whether with or without antes).

I don't really have an opinion on the NL structure but this is pretty much exactly what a number of us have been suggesting wrt limit structures (in all tournament formats).

apefish · 04-22-2012, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaiderr

The problem with jackpot SNG's is they are just asking for collusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussierob

From what I've read and heard I do believe that Stars has a security team that seems to know what it is doing

Raiderr's point is valid. It still looks like it takes players to guarantee policing of the games at times.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-botp-1196264/

aussierob · 04-22-2012, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apefish

Raiderr's point is valid. It still looks like it takes players to guarantee policing of the games at times.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-botp-1196264/

Yet the thread you lead us to was started 5 or 6 days AFTER the accounts stopped being used.

I assume you must then have proof that Stars did not already know about this and took action many days before the thread even started???

Or maybe Stars did the unthinkable and took action without telling 2+2 and getting their approval first?

If this is the case and if it has happened before I understand why Mason got the BANHAMMER on to Daniel as retaliation

Jah Onion · 04-22-2012, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Do it Right

I really hope that's not what you got from my message. I don't see how even could.

I hold no antagonism for the reps whatsoever. It's very clear Alex went to this meeting with the players' interests weighing heavily on his mind, determined to do any and everything he could. But no matter how determined a man may be, he's not going to move a mountain through will power and optimism alone. Stars is stringing players along from delay to delay, and their using the player representatives - who are acting in good faith and trust - as pawns to do it for them. I certainly hold no ill will towards Alex at all. I feel sorry for him since I do believe he is trying to do all he can and feels like he is working for the betterment of players. But when you look at the bigger picture, Stars has managed to effectively change the "PokerStars Steve" screen name to "Alex Wice." Instead of Steve delivering promises of what may (or may not) come at some unclear and undefined time in the future, along with other promises of how great a company and how serious Stars is taking all this - we have Alex doing it. And in a few months we'll have another new face, full of optimism and enthusiasm, taking his place. And in the mean time any issues players have with Stars? Well their employees will divert it all to the player meetings. It's a very messed up system.

This. Neither DiR nor I are taking shots at the reps* or complaining about their 'performance' at the IOM. The issue is that, like DiR says, ever since player rep meetings have started, the reps are basically taking on the jobs of PsSteve et al.

Not only that, but Stars are downright abusing the fact that these IMO meetings are a regular thing now. After the last meetings, some points were brought up IIRC wrt PLO rake and all that, and Steve's (i think it was him) reply was that these issues can be discussed at the meeting.

So there's an issue, a big one, a game is being raked to death, but instead of looking over the solutions now, let's wait a few months for these meetings the results of which being that PokerStars acknowledges that there are problems and said problems are being looked into.

All the while, games are still being raked to death, and who profits from this constant delaying? PokerStars of course

* Actually this is not entirely true as I, personally, am taking shots at the reps for their sort of nonchalant attitude with regards to Stars blatant passivity concerning issues that have been known and been brought up months ago.

Jah Onion · 04-22-2012, 04:31 AM

Quote:

To which he said?

We acknowledge this is a problem, we're going to look into it.

Quote:

The problem with jackpot SNG's is they are just asking for collusion.

i can't believe people are complaining about high SNG rake and then offering jackpot SNGs as a solution? You realize Stars would profit immensely from jackpot SNGs b/c the rake is higher, right?

Jah Onion · 04-22-2012, 04:40 AM

Cliffnotes:

- Rake at LHE is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- Rake at PLO is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- Rake at CAP is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- SNG rake is too high. I'm not sure how much this has been stated previously.
- PokerStars need to run more promotions like reload bonuses etc. This has been beaten to death on the forums including constant mocking of PS' 10th anniversary 10$ reload bonus

Results of this month's player rep meeting:

- PokerStars acknowledges rake is too high in some games.
- Player reps 'promise' that there are changes coming. What kind of changes? No idea.

Considering most of the issues were public knowledge and had been discussed on the forums (that player reps tell us PokerStars constantly reads and considers a valuable feedback asset) before the prior player rep meeting, how can any rep say this meeting was anything else than a farce?

yougotfried · 04-22-2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Wice

CAP Rake

First, the fact that there aren't cap games at lower limits is a travesty. You can blame cap as "not being real poker", but hell -- by that metric, so are tourneys and sngs. Cap is really popular among recreational players. The reason 25NL and lower cap hasn't been offered yet probably likely has something to do with the fact that there isn't a separate CAP rake structure sheet yet, and basically they take way more out of 10NL straight up, so it would be hard for them to offer 10NL CAP. But I think 25NL cap is a good start offerings wise.

Right now I think that 400NL+ cap does have problems but the problems are very minor compared to 100NL and 200NL cap, so I will use 400NL as a baseline. I will discuss 50NL cap and lower later.

The second thing I would do is offer 25NL cap. I don't know why this isn't being offered yet. I would trial the following caps:

50NL : $0.80 cap
25NL : $0.45 cap

For 50NL and 25NL specifically, the bb/100 taken out of the game doesn't scale well like in 100bb NLH. It is hard to take much more than 6bb/100 out of a cap game without it becoming extremely stagnant. I would stress that these different rake caps would be trial rake caps, to see if game conditions improve.

One last thing about CAP. It has been floating around as an idea, the idea that FTP offered games with a 30bb cap. If you like 20bb caps (as I do) then make sure your voice is heard, that 20bb is the correct format for CAP games.

-------------------------------

20 is better than 30 imo... did you make the recommendation about nl25 to them at the meeting, or is this an after thought you had here? is there any chance nl25 could come?

aussierob · 04-22-2012, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jah Onion

We acknowledge this is a problem, we're going to look into it.
i can't believe people are complaining about high SNG rake and then offering jackpot SNGs as a solution? You realize Stars would profit immensely from jackpot SNGs b/c the rake is higher, right?

I offered the idea of jackpot SNG's but NEVER did I complain about the rake at present.

Please explain how Stars "profit immensely" from the extra rake in a jackpot SNG since ALL the extra rake would go to the jackpot and/or consolation prizes. The way I see it they would LOSE $$$ as people would gain more FPP's playing them.

Then again - I came into this discussion to try to offer ideas rather than bitch and moan like some.

Jah Onion · 04-22-2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Please explain how Stars "profit immensely" from the extra rake in a jackpot SNG since ALL the extra rake would go to the jackpot and/or consolation prizes

because, as with every sort of jackpot, not all the extra rake goes to the jackpot.

Quote:

Then again - I came into this discussion to try to offer ideas rather than bitch and moan like some.

not sure what you're expecting here. ideas have been offered and re-offered ad nauseum.
These are the (big) problems:

Quote:

- Rake at LHE is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- Rake at PLO is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- Rake at CAP is too high. This has been stated and re-stated throughout this year
- SNG rake is too high. I'm not sure how much this has been stated previously.
- PokerStars need to run more promotions like reload bonuses etc. This has been beaten to death on the forums including constant mocking of PS' 10th anniversary 10$ reload bonus

what ideas are you looking for people to come up with here? Lower the rake?increase rewards?run reload bonuses? gee, those are such difficult concepts, you definitely need LOTS of people to suggest those things or no-one would think of them. Oh wait, turns out lots of people HAVE already suggested these things.

TheRaiderr · 04-22-2012, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussierob

I offered the idea of jackpot SNG's but NEVER did I complain about the rake at present.

Please explain how Stars "profit immensely" from the extra rake in a jackpot SNG since ALL the extra rake would go to the jackpot and/or consolation prizes. The way I see it they would LOSE $$$ as people would gain more FPP's playing them.

Then again - I came into this discussion to try to offer ideas rather than bitch and moan like some.

To claify on the previous poster, most jackpots and bad beat jacktops the sites rake for an administration fee. Further the winner I imagine nearly always withdraws it instantly.

I don't think you need to argue about this. Since this is something that has been running a long time on ipoker I am sure they have considered it since it isn't a new idea or anything.

It would also split the player pool which is always dangerous.

It is also doesn't really answer any of the current problems, just adds a new game type.

aussierob · 04-22-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaiderr

To claify on the previous poster, most jackpots and bad beat jacktops the sites rake for an administration fee. Further the winner I imagine nearly always withdraws it instantly.

I don't think you need to argue about this. Since this is something that has been running a long time on ipoker I am sure they have considered it since it isn't a new idea or anything.

It would also split the player pool which is always dangerous.

It is also doesn't really answer any of the current problems, just adds a new game type.

Sorry guys - didn't know you were both privy to the inner workings and financial details of iPoker.

And I guess features Stars has implemented like zoom poker, synchronized breaks etc were brand new ideas they thought up all by themselves - LOL..

Let's look at the old deposit bonus - deposit $600 and get a $120 bonus - great idea for 2+2 regs but awful for the rec players who would be lucky to clear half of the bonus.

Guess I'm only a few thousands posts away from GIMME GIMME GIMME - ME ME ME !!!

Mark275 · 04-22-2012, 06:58 AM

on daniels recent VLOG he said he was in the isle of man and talked to some bigshots and said alot of people up there think USA regulation will come soon and theres a chance it comes back in the USA !