Well, that's enough for 100 extra $15000 all-in shootouts It's not a lot of Robin-Hooding, SNEs will be giving up less than 3% of their yearly rake, moreover, the most variance-ridden part of the former rewards (unless they still decide to play in a COOP on their own, which far not all non-MTT players will do, or swap shares, which can result in some undesirable kind of 'team play').

Thanks to Steve for delivering the news way before IoM meeting reports and even before the last VIP Club Live Party of the year, for giving us plenty of time for planning for 2015-16.

^why are you assuming this money will be invested in recreational oriented promos?

I didn't assume, I advised

Anyway, the amount of profit (the share of deposits) that Amaya, or any other gambling operator, wants to get is not something a single player or a relatively small group of players like 2+2 can change significantly; we can only adjust to the situation.

Money saved on WCOOP tix is going to the same place money saved on missed milestones caused by 4th quarter intro of Spins. Investors pockets.

So basically robbin hooding just without the part where the loot is given to the poor?

Thanks for the early information tho, that way everyone has enough time to plan if they still want to go for it next year or not.

We get nothing instead of that ? It's just scrapped ?

Why is everyone saying this is not a big deal ? That's like a 5% decrease in the value of SNE

because it doesn't effect most ppl

Just wait for 2016. It will be.

^ I don't know...
2015 chances are pretty light and I don't see why 2016 should be much worse.
If they wanted to drastically chance the VIP program, they would have it done now.
So I expect changes, but def not expecting a 50% cut

PS Steve in his post States that there will be more significant changes in 2016. Given that pretty much nothing Stars has done recently has been for the benefit of regs, pros and rakeback grinders are you really so confident that the significant changes will significantly good for that section of the clientele?

I find it hard to believe it will be.

Promotions, banal and pathetically mindless promotions like flippaments, are the path forward for Stars. Reg friendly promotions like deposit bonuses are extinct. With a casino operator taking over I just can't bring myself to believe that poker grinders are going to be the focus going forward, the new owners are looking to expand and attract new customers, non poker playing customers.

I'm overly pessimistic and I know that but I don't see that there has been any reason for optimism when the only change this year is still a negative change consisting of a money grab from the VIP rewards.

I have to agree with a lot of what's said here.

For the record I did predict a 15% cut to SNE's and it's only 5% but I fear next years cuts will be much more. People instinctively don't like change so I'd say the cuts will be fazed over a 3 year period, this being the first.

I looked at a poker scout graph showing the decline for cash games year over year on Stars so it's clear that Stars is not making as much as they used to. To compensate for the reduced revenue they are trying to make a higher percentage from each deposit. By doing this they alienate regs and they end up with smaller player pools and then have to repeat this process over again. It's a losing cycle for both Stars and players.

Something needs to change and marketing to non poker players is the only way for the current trends to change. When Stars is doing well through natural growth so will winning players. When Stars tries to gain a higher percentage of deposits at the expense of regs they do well in the short run but will also lose in the long run.

I agree with a lot of what you said... but we don't know their plans yet.
Let's say in 2016 all high tiers player would get a 20% cut but that cut will be used in some effective promos... what do you think then?
PS and other rooms need to focus on recreational first, remember that we need fishes at the tables.
I'm more than happy to give away my 20% RB if this could help to bring more fishes.


Nice post, although I agree with what you said, I don't think we can really deem right now. We don't have any clue about PS plans, maybe this year cut and other cut as well would be used to enlarge player pool.
We should wait, don't you think?

I'm not a top tier player, or reward earner, so cutting from the top to redistribute to the bottom is something that would be in my interests it has to be said. I don't hate SN/SNE players, or think they should have their rewards slashed to a ridiculous degree though, what I object to in this years change is that they have just lifted rewards from the top of the tier and either banked it or put it towards the current crap promotions they are running.

Brings me nicely on to your next point, if they lift 20% from the rewards and put it towards poker promotions (This does NOT include flippaments and Spin and Goes (Which I have played)) then certainly I am content with that. However, I think the prospect of that being the case is hovering somewhere around 0.01%.

I agree we need fish at the tables, however, I don't see that there has been any increase recently and Stars have been targeting them for a while. That said I should maybe get away from Zoom tables completely and I will see more of them.

I'm relatively new to the game having never really played to any serious degree until January 2013 so I maybe don't know what I am talking about. I just don't see anything positive coming about (Unless they offer a bumper Sportsbook bonus).

I understand why you and other ppl don't see anything positive, but I'm sure about one thing. PS management changed, now different goals are set, but even if they want to maximize profit they know for sure they aren't stupid and understand that they can't just rake in slaughtering all players, simply it isn't in their best interest.

We could argue about the fact, previous and actual owners don't understand at 100% poker ecosystem or other dinamics and that's ok, but I think ppl here are too harsh IMO.

Good poast

I agree with 4 star general that it's tough to predict the direction of Stars until the beginning of 2015 to see if any new trends develop.

I have thought for about a year now that slashing the rewards from the top was inevitable as it doesn't make business sense with Stars' current market share.

What I'm hoping is we will see much more VIP tourneys geared towards lower tier players that give value as opposed to just the perception of value. Entrenching lower tier players into the VIP program should be deemed a top priority and if its not then the VIP program should be scrapped since a program that doesn't encourage new participation serves no value to the site.

Pretty sure any drop in cash rake has more than been made up by the increase in SNG rake brought about by hypers.

Allowing for Black Friday obv.

To be fair, the VIP program has been consistently trimmed over the last few years in correlation with Stars gaining market share, wanting to cut costs and having a following for SNE which doesnt need a bonanza to keep people interested. In the last 3-4 years the following has changed:

- $20k bonus only instead of 2x packages worth substantially more, replaces with discount SNE packages instead
- no added seat FPP events for SN/SNEs, which used to carry quite a lot of value and overlays.
- Removal of BOP shootout
- Removal of WCOOP ticket

The common theme here is that none of these changes are to integral parts of the program such as multipliers or milestones. Stars are smart enough to know how to lower expectations so that people are happy with modest cuts, so I hope the 2016 changes would be consistent with that since they said there was going to be a substantial review this year as well. WCOOP ticket represents about 4% to an SNE and is delayed, so hopefully next years substaintial change might only be something like removing BOP, which is another 3-4% but has never been promoted well at all and is probably surplus to requirements with spin and gos. As with most things though, its always good to have a backup plan just in case ;-)

Hi Steve, I hope that changes for 2016 are not drastic. There are always solutions, but should never punish their loyal customers, regular players.
Cheers and hope to maintain good judgment; as formerly.

Meh I was never a fan of forcing cash game players to waste their time and rakeback on ****ing donkaments.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out though

Not happy with the changes. I am only a supernova. The changes are costly. And we, in Belgium, get less FPP's bc governement wants a piece. In the end I will just give up the dream to become a full time player.

No one's gonna go for SNE next year now that they know everything will get scraped in 2016 anyway. Congrats PokerStars on losing one of your key appeals.

You can become a full time player even with a lower RB.
Don't use it as an excuse to give up, poker won't die at all, there will be always money to be made.
Gl in your venture



No, unless you know in advance what changes PS are going to make.
Many SNE would confirm SNE and expect a RB cut.

what is the best one then?