THREE STRICT RULES FOR POSTING
There are only three main rules for posting*** in this special thread, which is modded particularly strictly:
Hi, welcome to the Two Plus Two Person to Person Transfer Thread. Hopefully this isn't the first post you're reading, as Two Plus Two's raison d'etre is not facilitating trades between users. This thread is a courtesy to our users who have made these forums into the thriving community it is today. Two Plus Two is not a swap meet; please don't treat it as one.
If this is the first post you're reading here, let's hope you are reading it. We know it's kind of long, but the first part is really important, and if you like your money and don't want it stolen, so is the rest. So please, take a minute and learn what you're getting yourself into.
1. Always give all relevant pokersite SNs (screen names) in every post. Otherwise, expect infractions and/or bans.**** (This includes posts confirming trades. You should post both your SNs and your trading partner's SNs. i.e. 2 users * 2 sites = 4 SNs required.)
2. You must be certain you have your PM (private message) facilities activated [** see "Note to new users" immediately below these three rules for posting in this thread] before posting. Otherwise, expect infractions and/or bans.
3. No Paypal trades are permitted. Expect infractions and/or bans if you request same.
You should also read the rest of this OP (opening post) and the continuation post before you post.
Full and permanent disclosure of all relevant information is a condition of using this thread. If in doubt, PM a mod before posting.
**Note to new users:
If your PM facilities have not yet been activated, (they will be activated after your normal use of the forums - see http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/fa...faq_disabledpm
), you may not post in this special thread. If you do, you will receive an infraction
, and your post will be edited. You will also probably be temp-banned
for at least one day. [Added 11/17/09]
If you click on "My 2+2" and the top drop-down option isn't "Private Messages", PMs are not activated for you, yet.
If you receive an e-mail
from another user responding to your request to transfer funds, it is 99%+ certain that he is a scammer. He should be using the PM system. Please report receipt of all such e-mails in the thread, preferably after you discover his supposed pokersite screen names. Thank you. [Added 120210]
You must include your relevant pokernames when you request a transfer or respond to a transfer request.
Include them with every post. Posts made without having included your names may be deleted or edited without notice and will receive an infraction, whether or not you have posted them many times before. If you wish to use this thread, you must respect the volunteer mods' wishes, as they do not have time to search your previous posts for your names. If you post in the thread, you may not remove your SNs at a later time. You may not disguise your SNs; as they must be searchable at a later date, for good references, etc.
Have $100 on FTP (mynameonftp)
Want $100 on PS (mynameonps)
Have $100 on FTP
Want $100 on PS
I will not scam you.
I'm interested in that trade, PM sent.
Hey trading guy, I'll do that for you.
Traded my $100 on FTP to PS with UserGuy.
FTP (mynameonftp), (hisnameonftp)
PS (mynameonps), (hisnameonps)
If, for some reason, you post a different SN from one previously posted, it or your next post must include a full and truthful explanation. Otherwise, you may be banned without further notice. (For example, if you are trying to trade for your brother, Father, roomie, etc, you must state this in your request, and you must include your own SNs for the relevant sites.) People will
find the discrepancies, post them, and your reputation will be worthless.
***If you attempt to trade with someone who should not be posting in the thread, per the three rules above, you may also receive an infraction or be banned.
****If you trade with someone who has not posted their names in the thread, you must post their names when you confirm the trade. If you don't, you may receive an infraction.
If you send unsolicited PMs to other users, you may be banned without notice. You must only post in the thread, and users wishing to trade with you will see your request there.
WEC's comprehensive Search Tips
to help you avoid being scammed
NB: I do not use AIM or MSN.
Only PM, to prove it is me. I will not e-mail you. Scammers impersonate me and other mods and users on AIM and MSN. MH.
NB: I maintain an "alleged scammers list"
in this thread. (Latest update
Read Markusgc's News, Tips, and Advice Post
List of recent alleged scams.
Also, "How not to do it!"
Here are all successful transfers since post #50k / 09-07-2009.
Rainbow Warrior's p2p stats thread
This is the only thread in this forum in which you may ask for p2p transfers. (The previous thread
has been locked; but it will still be worth scan-reading the last month or so's posts if you are considering a p2p transfer.)
In fact, Twoplustwo would prefer that we didn't have such requests, but, to be realistic, they do appear in the forum from time to time, and therefore as long as they are kept in this one thread, which contains the "rules", warnings and disclaimers, most will not be locked or deleted, until further notice.
The thread is to be looked upon only as a convenience to players having funding difficulties, and profiteering or transfer-business posts which state, say, that people have "unlimited" amounts to transfer for a set vig will probably be deleted.
Transfers involving Paypal
are strictly disallowed and will almost certainly be edited or deleted. (See discussion at end of previous thread for reasons. Basically, you can cancel a Paypal transaction within 60 days, and as Paypal does not want to be associated with gambling, in general, the scammers will cancel the transfer within 60 days, and the cancellation request is likely to be upheld by Paypal. Also, see https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/we...ection-outside
All transfers are arranged entirely at the two parties' own risk. The two parties are responsible for investigating the creditworthiness and honesty of the other. My advice, among other precautions you should take, would be that you should obtain the other party's real life name, address and telephone number, in order that you have full details to give to the police if you are scammed. You should exchange full details of the proposed transfer by e-mail. You should transfer only in amounts that you are prepared to lose. Transfer in a number of small amounts if the total amount you need is more than you are prepared to risk losing. Google and Search the other person's Twoplustwo name, and their playing-names on the two pokersites involved. Ask in the thread for references, if you wish. Ask the other party to sit at a table with his bankroll in front of him. Etc, etc. It seems likely but not definite that most scammers are newer posters.
Ask the prospective transferor to state in the chat of the pokersite from which he is supposed to transfer that he will transfer when he receives your transfer on the other site. This will serve as evidence that there is a deal between you.
post your AIM or e-mail address in the thread. The criminals that are trying to scam you will contact you and lie that they are well-known posters here. Always make them contact you through the PM system, at least very early in your negotiations. Posts including AIM addresses will probably be deleted, and continued disregard of this rule will incur infractions and, if necessary, loss of Transfer Thread Privileges. If you do not have PM facilities, (which are only activated after normal use of the forums, for the purpose of hindering spammers), you must arrange transfers in open view within the thread, and by chatting on tables at both pokersites.
The thieves will edit copies of e-mails they say they have received from the pokersites. Perhaps better are screenshots if you are basing your actions on their content; but even screenshots can be faked.
If you are scammed, inform and warn others via a post in this thread, as soon as possible. Here is Markusgc's suggested guideline of actions.
Give the pokersites full details as soon as possible. It is highly likely that they won't be able to take any action to save your money, (as they only have your word against his that he didn't keep his part of the deal - but see New Suggestion above
), but at least they should note the alleged scam and possibly disallow future transfers to his account in an attempt to protect other customers of theirs.
You must accept that Twoplustwo will take little or no action against alleged scammers, (again, they have no proof that the alleged scam has actually occurred), including possibly not even banning them, so you should not think that just because someone still has an active account in the forums they are not as likely to scam you as any other anonymous stranger on the internet. If you are scammed, you must not post personal details of the alleged scammer in the forums.
You must include your relevant pokernames when you request a transfer. You should include them with every post requesting a transfer. Posts made without having included your names may be deleted or edited without notice and may receive an infraction, whether or not you included them with earlier requests. (This is so that mods don't have to search to see if you have posted your pokernames with earlier requests.)
[added 2/26/09] [Amended 040509]
NO ONE SHOULD EVER SEND MONEY BEFORE AN AGREEMENT IS SET BETWEEN BOTH USERS. Offenders may be banned without notice. [Added 062609]
"Let the buyer beware."
If you see a lot of red or yellow infraction icons (
)when searching posts of a potential trade partner, that's NOT
a good sign.
Edit/MH: Here is a copy of an excellent advice post made by Suited76 on the 12th September:
I don't have a lot of posts here because I don't think many of you could benefit from my shoddy poker advice. I am, however, a 35 year old detail-oriented OCD patient so I'm going to offer some lengthy advice on trading.
Some of this is posted in the OP but I think it's worth saying again. I'm a little worried about the attempt to basically come up with some formula that says if posts=Y + past trading history=X then trade away. I think people get a little lost because poker funds sometime seem like fake E-money, but people are sending hundreds\thousands of dollars to strangers. Some common sense is in order.
Do pay attention to registration date and post counts. These are important but they aren't the end all. Several scammers have run their post counts up very quickly.
Ask the trader to sit at a table with his bankroll. I don't think it's out of order to ask to see all of it. Even if you are just trading $100, if you see the person sit down with $2000 then you should feel a lot safer.
If the person is a tournament player then ask for their screen names in advance. Check them on officialpokerrankings.com, thepokerdb.com, or sharkscope.com (if they are a sng player). Don't send $1000 to some guy who is an unprofitable $5 tournament player. If you see that the guy makes $2000 a month then he's probably not looking to scam you for $100.
Search for the person’s screen name in this thread. See what people have said about him. Check for the amounts, who sent first, and where the money was coming/going. Be very careful about sending large amounts to some guy who has only sent first in his previous swaps.
Don’t be afraid to ask for personal information. You don’t have to get their SS#, but ask for their full name or maybe get them to send an email from their work account if they have one.
Don’t rely on people soliciting you from an IM. Make them send you a PM so you can verify that you are dealing with the actual 2+2er.
Don’t depend on screen shots or anything that’s been copied/pasted/forwarded into an email/IM. Screen shots of someone’s account balance can be easily altered. Just because you’ve seen a transfer email pasted somewhere, that is by no means conclusive proof that your money is on its way.
Trade in increments if you feel that’s necessary. Only send large amounts if you feel VERY comfortable with your trading partner. The less you know about him, the smaller the increments should be.
Hopefully these are helpful, but it just comes down to doing your research. You don’t have to do all of them, but the more of this information you can put together the safer your money will be. If you find someone being an ass about giving you information then find someone else to trade with.
IIRC, a few weeks ago I saw guy A (new reg date/low post count) posting that he needed money moved from Stars to FT. A little later guy B posts the same thing needing FT money in exchange for Stars. Later, guy A posts that he can help out guy B HOURS AFTER SAYING THAT HE NEEDED FULL TILT MONEY. I thought to myself that I hope guy B isn’t falling for that only to log on a few hours later to see guy B posting how he’s been scammed.
Decide what you are comfortable with and do the appropriate amount of research. If you don’t find an acceptable trading partner then bite the bullet and seek out one of our well-known traders who will help you for a fee. I’d prefer that our trades benefit both parties and foster a better community, but paying the vig is a LOT better than getting your money stolen.
Lastly, after you make a successful trade please come back to the forums and make a post letting folks know. I also think it’s a good idea to put complete information in the post. Who sent first, how much was sent, in what increments, and on what sites. This will help all of us make safer decisions in the future.
032108 - pmarrsouth:
I would recommend NO trading with anyone who opened an account on FTP/PS within the last month. A lot of people looking for trades from these accounts are depositing with FAKE credit cards, and so they send to you on Site A, then you send them legit funds on a Site B, and then you get screwed in a few days on Site A, for receiving legit funds from a charged back Credit Card.
You can tell (usually) that an account is new by checking them out on www.pokertableratings.com
, and also plug it into google. If no/little results come up then you will know that the account is usually brand new, and therefore (even if they send first) that you should not trade with them.
Edit/MH: Added 043008:
I've heard that some of the people that have been scammed recently have simply accepted that they have lost their money, and done nothing more about it, thinking that the pokersites can't help them get their money back, so why bother?
Although, admittedly, there is only a very slim chance that you will get your money back, you should still tell the sites that you have been scammed and ask them to put a note on the scammer's account that you have reported them as being a scammer. Also ask them to consider preventing automatic transfers into the alleged scammer's account from other players, to try to prevent others being scammed in the future. Many of the scammers' accounts are new, and they try to scam as many people as they can in a short period of time, before their account becomes known or is closed.
You should probably provide Support with chat logs, e-mail copies, and screenshots to prove your side of the story. (Stars has a dedicated e-mail address of email@example.com
for the like of reporting scams.)
Advice about delayed transfers, by Nofx Fan: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=57894
General reminders by WEC: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=59833
and Nofx Fan: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=59868
Supreme common sense advice from a respected trader:
Tips on searching
Originally Posted by nimbus
Best to avoid any trade if the trader doesn't seem legit.
Basically, if we can make it as difficult as possible for these lowlife thieves to steal from others, it makes it a safer environment for us to effect our honest and helpful p2p transfers.
Alleged scammer taken to Court!
"On Oct 6th he was sentenced to 3 years in prison followed by 5 years of extended supervision.
During extended supervision:
-not able to possess a computer or the internet without approval
-obtain and maintain full time employment
-pay restitution of ~17k
-comply with all counseling deemed necessary"
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