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Old 03-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #5426
mlo4sho
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx00 View Post
What are you guys doing about the Swedish bots that are currently playing on your site? One of them just won the BBJ. Another one the jackpot sometime in February. I discussed this on another forum and it appears that Winning Poker Network is ignoring this problem.

These group of players was brought up in the True Poker thread ten months ago. Since then nothing was done. Several players even wrote about this group of players to support and still nothing was done.

I would post this in the ACR or True thread ,the skin I play on,but it seems like they don't answer question often and it seems the Black Chip Rep is the best person for this problem.

This problem is seriously a joke. I will likely start a thread directly to regarding this as the network is either ignoring the problem in order to generate traffic promotions, like The Beast which seem to be in line with this school of though or they are a part of it, which is far fetched but a possibly I suppose.
No offense to you but aren't you one of them? I understand what you mean
as I have played on this network for over a year now. Again, no offense but aren't you from Sweden and don't you exhibit the same behaviors these other Swedes do? I'm really not trying to accuse you of anything I just would like to know because I have grouped you in the same category as these other players.

Also, what evidence do you have that they are bots? I am not disagreeing with you by any means... I'm just curious as to your reasoning. It has been my belief that, while it is possible they are bots, it's more likely they're part of some sort of "Poker ring". I don't believe they are in collusion or anything like that but it is obvious they are somewhat connected because of the reasons you pointed out and other reasons. Just to reiterate:

-Similar HUD stats (not absolute... some play tighter than others, some 3bet more some less, etc.)
-Nearly identical bet sizing (post flop anyway. a couple of them have different opening sizes and 3b sizes but more-or-less their sizing is the same)
-Identical timing tells (this is the biggest evidence imo that they are bots. they always take the exact same amount of time to fold, call, raise etc. and their timing pretty much never varies (ie. opponent donk shoves the river which made the Swedish player the nuts it's always 1, 2, 3, call. Most players would call much quicker here but these players have the same timing whether they made the nuts or are just folding). They never use the Auto-Fold checkbox unless they are UTG + 1. Go ahead, watch them. I've never seen any of them use this feature unless they are in this position.
-They play the same games, like you mentioned, but never CAP tables. Some compelling evidence that they are part of some sort of group is the fact they they NEVER played the (Short) tables. A few months ago (give or take) they ALL suddenly started sitting in these games. Like I said, I've played on this network for a while so I have been able to notice tendencies between these players. This was a big one imo.
-They don't play 3-handed or less (usually, there has been some instances where it has been me, the player in question, and 1 other weaker player and they continued to play 3-handed but they almost always insta-sit out as the game breaks).
-They don't use wait lists.
-They don't chat (not compelling evidence obviously but just another coincidence)
-They play many hours at a time (6-8 hour "shifts" straight with no breaks. Definitely not compelling evidence of a bot as many players can do this but they do it with such consistency while exhibiting all of the other behaviors [never breaking their timing, never varying bet sizes, etc] that it's a bit suspicious.

There are probably other reasons that I can't think of atm but that's most of them. These players definitely could be bots because of all the reasons stated and certainly look/play like bots. The reason I recently started to think they aren't bots is because I feel like the level of play is too high for a bot. I've seen these players make adjustments that I would not expect a bot to make. For example, against an absolute maniac. As you know, these players Cbet at a very high frequency. Well, I've seen cases where they have started to take other lines such as check/folding flops they would normally cbet, check/call, etc. I've seen them start 3betting at a much higher rate against these types of maniac/aggressive players. I've seen them get it in light against these same types of opponents. I've also seen occasions where I believe the player in question has tilted. It could be a coincidence, or it may not. In my opinion (admittedly I know little to nothing about bots) it just doesn't seem possible a bot would be able to adjust and make reads based on opponents' tendencies and HUD stats as a human player would make. With that said, ALL of the other evidence points to them being bots in my opinion. So if there is a way that there is some sort of bot that is advanced enough to to adjust to game flow and opponent tendencies then I would absolutely agree these players are bots. Whether or not that is the case I don't know. Anyways, that's my take on the situation because, as you can tell, I've thought about this a lot over the past year+.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:42 PM   #5427
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

I am done with this site. I cannot stand the software. Even their casino sucks.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:43 PM   #5428
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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I am done with this site. I cannot stand the software. Even their casino sucks.
Take care
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:00 PM   #5429
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Originally Posted by mlo4sho View Post
No offense to you but aren't you one of them? I understand what you mean
as I have played on this network for over a year now. Again, no offense but aren't you from Sweden and don't you exhibit the same behaviors these other Swedes do? I'm really not trying to accuse you of anything I just would like to know because I have grouped you in the same category as these other players.


-Similar HUD stats (not absolute... some play tighter than others, some 3bet more some less, etc.)

-.
First the username is suppose to be funny. I am not the player jinx00.

As far as Hud stats go, if you filter the games to 6 players at the table or 9 player at the table they all have basically the same stats give or take one percentage.

Now we all know that there are optimal ranges for example someone playing 25/20/ with a 6% 3bet is not uncommon. What is uncommon is when you take a group of 6 or 7 suspicious players and they all fold to continuation bets exactly 50% of the time and have all the same stats. I will try to make some type of a graph or a chart showing 5 to 10 stats on these players and how they are all within 1% of each other.

The whole patterns of how the group act goes on. For example I was playing with a few of these players last month when The Beast tourney was going on, I checked to see if they were playing in it and they were both siting out. Why on earth would someone that was playing on that site at the moment be sitting out of a free 55 USD tourney. Even if you are mostly a cash player, like myself, you will still play in a sick free roll.

Another thing that I though was really weird was that they seemed to disappear a bit at the end of last month and have now been seen again. This happened right after I read this story.

"Illegal Swedish Poker Bots earn over $280,000"

http://www.cardking.info/shownews.asp?id=1861

While this might not be the same guy, but the absence could be due to the fact that the guy got arrested or maybe he was giving it a week or so to let things cool down in case other sites started investigation winning Swedish accounts.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:11 PM   #5430
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

This is an absolute cashout nightmare... Support has been nothing but giving me angle shoot after angle shoot for a week now ... They just told me that I have to wait for their processors to address the issue because it showed the check cleared ( not a chance ) and with the way Processors are nowadays this could take weeks.... This is absolutely terrible customer service. I provided them with everything they needed to show the check bounced from my bank and I am being forced to wait because of their terrible accounting issues for MY money.... Unacceptable
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:15 PM   #5431
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by t_for_prezz View Post
This is an absolute cashout nightmare... Support has been nothing but giving me angle shoot after angle shoot for a week now ... They just told me that I have to wait for their processors to address the issue because it showed the check cleared ( not a chance ) and with the way Processors are nowadays this could take weeks.... This is absolutely terrible customer service. I provided them with everything they needed to show the check bounced from my bank and I am being forced to wait because of their terrible accounting issues for MY money.... Unacceptable
Have you tried crying and complaining itt more?
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:21 PM   #5432
t_for_prezz
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Just letting others know whats to be expected from support when they cashout via check and it bounces. Thanks for chiming in though .
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:26 PM   #5433
mlo4sho
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx00 View Post
First the username is suppose to be funny. I am not the player jinx00.

As far as Hud stats go, if you filter the games to 6 players at the table or 9 player at the table they all have basically the same stats give or take one percentage.

Now we all know that there are optimal ranges for example someone playing 25/20/ with a 6% 3bet is not uncommon. What is uncommon is when you take a group of 6 or 7 suspicious players and they all fold to continuation bets exactly 50% of the time and have all the same stats. I will try to make some type of a graph or a chart showing 5 to 10 stats on these players and how they are all within 1% of each other.

The whole patterns of how the group act goes on. For example I was playing with a few of these players last month when The Beast tourney was going on, I checked to see if they were playing in it and they were both siting out. Why on earth would someone that was playing on that site at the moment be sitting out of a free 55 USD tourney. Even if you are mostly a cash player, like myself, you will still play in a sick free roll.

Another thing that I though was really weird was that they seemed to disappear a bit at the end of last month and have now been seen again. This happened right after I read this story.

"Illegal Swedish Poker Bots earn over $280,000"

http://www.cardking.info/shownews.asp?id=1861

While this might not be the same guy, but the absence could be due to the fact that the guy got arrested or maybe he was giving it a week or so to let things cool down in case other sites started investigation winning Swedish accounts.
Ah, okay I see about the name now. I figured it could be a joke or something after I made the post but thanks for clarifying. As far as the stats go, I still see some of them having different stats and some definitely playing tighter than others (have a couple 18/15s, one 17/13, a couple 22/18s and a couple 23/19s when filtering for 6 players at table). I looked at the other stats as well such as 3betting, Cbetting F/T/R and Fold to Cbet stats and they are somewhat similar however there are some differences between the tighter/looser players. Sample size could be the issue here as I don't have a huge amount of hands on all of these players. If you have a vast amount of hands on these players and state they all have similar stats I am not going to disagree with you. I've played pretty much daily for a while now on this network but don't put in a ton of volume. Also, good point on the Beast tournament. That is something I didn't see or think of and I think it is also a good piece of evidence. I have also seen that story on the Swedish bot ring and have wondered if these two groups could possibly be related. As you mentioned, they have not played for a bit recently and I just started seeing one play again as of yesterday I believe. Very interesting stuff none-the-less. Hopefully some others can shed some light on the situation.

Last edited by mlo4sho; 03-13-2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:42 PM   #5434
jinx00
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

With the HUD stuff I suppose the number of hands will be a big factor. Also I imagine they have the technology to make some players play a little looser or tighter. The one thing I did notice is that most the bots fold exactly to 51% of flop bets and seem to have no real leaks.

I think the more damning evidence is the lack of time outs, never joining waiting lists, never playing three handed even if there is a real bad player still at the table and things like all of the players username differs from their log in name but the log in name contains the users name it just might add a word on to it or have a number instead of a letter. I will most likely start a thread were regs can pile up there evidence. I just hope that they are unable to escape with money that belongs to the real players.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:48 PM   #5435
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by t_for_prezz View Post
Just letting others know whats to be expected from support when they cashout via check and it bounces. Thanks for chiming in though .
Ummmm,Thats what your first 3 posts were for i think
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:33 PM   #5436
mlo4sho
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx00 View Post
With the HUD stuff I suppose the number of hands will be a big factor. Also I imagine they have the technology to make some players play a little looser or tighter. The one thing I did notice is that most the bots fold exactly to 51% of flop bets and seem to have no real leaks.

I think the more damning evidence is the lack of time outs, never joining waiting lists, never playing three handed even if there is a real bad player still at the table and things like all of the players username differs from their log in name but the log in name contains the users name it just might add a word on to it or have a number instead of a letter. I will most likely start a thread were regs can pile up there evidence. I just hope that they are unable to escape with money that belongs to the real players.
I will look forward to this thread. Like I said, I've thought about this for a long time and it seemed like no one else cared or noticed enough to voice their opinions but it obviously is a very serious issue.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:46 PM   #5437
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Quote:
Originally Posted by t_for_prezz View Post
Just letting others know whats to be expected from support when they cashout via check and it bounces. Thanks for chiming in though .
The cashier service is provided by the network (not by BCP). I don't mean this as an excuse, but I think you would have a hard time finding a US-facing network that does a better job than ours.

I understand you're frustrated, but you have to understand that these things happen - it comes with the territory (literally), in this environment. In fact, when checks need to be cancelled and/or reissued it is a very expensive (for us) and time consuming (for the banking/cashier staff) process - so it is far from ideal, and this action would only be taken if absolutely necessary.

You will receive your funds, but you will need to be patient and please continue dealing with the support/cashier staff as you have been doing so far.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:08 PM   #5438
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Originally Posted by jmurjeff View Post
What do you need in order to transfer money to another player?

money

Last edited by The Ocean; 03-13-2013 at 11:12 PM. Reason: my 420th post! Q- What do you need in order to buy marijuana? A- Money
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:23 PM   #5439
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Does anyone have experience with ordering stuff from the store? I was going to get the iPad but would like some input from others who have gotten electronics and how long it usually takes them to actually ship it to you??
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:32 PM   #5440
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Does anyone have experience with ordering stuff from the store? I was going to get the iPad but would like some input from others who have gotten electronics and how long it usually takes them to actually ship it to you??
You should expect it will take 4-6 weeks for items like this. They are working on improving the delivery times at the moment, but that's the current estimate.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:29 AM   #5441
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Thanks for quick response. Appreciate it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:22 AM   #5442
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Thanks for quick response. Appreciate it.
Wembly!!! i miss fraggle rock.With the dooziers that built crystal meth structures LOL
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:25 AM   #5443
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

I noticed all the things said about about a group of Swedish players (8 or 9). I turned in the names and made a points about them not playing in the beast, bet sizing and things of that sort some time earlier in the year.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:49 AM   #5444
BustedTurdCutrr
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

How is the HU PLO 0.50 and up at this site. Does the HU have a beast and a jackpot drop?
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:23 AM   #5445
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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How is the HU PLO 0.50 and up at this site. Does the HU have a beast and a jackpot drop?
Very rarely does HU .50 1 run, but you can usually find some action at .25 .50 and 1 2. HU 2 4 does not run. And no, HU does not have beast or bbj rake.

For 6m, there are usually 3 .50-1 games, 2 1-2 games, and about 3 2-4 games running

Action above 2-4 is very sporadic and when a game runs it usually does for an hour or two at most

Last edited by Fraggle; 03-14-2013 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:15 PM   #5446
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Of course we are ignored with all of this WPN does not care if bots have stolen over 100k of the site in the last few months.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:55 PM   #5447
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Of course we are ignored with all of this WPN does not care if bots have stolen over 100k of the site in the last few months.
have you made a separate thread yet?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:38 PM   #5448
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Is BlackChip Poker open to US players?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:38 PM   #5449
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

Skimmed the last page or so of this thread and didn't see anything about this...

Did the network do away with 10-20 and 15-30 fixed limit holdem tables?

Maybe I have my filters set wrong, but I can't seem to find them if they are there.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:45 PM   #5450
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Re: ***OFFICIAL BlackChipPoker Thread***

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Is BlackChip Poker open to US players?
yes
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