Edit/MH: See
Sitout Details Thread
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To All,
I think almost every reg is now on board with how horrid these changes are for any high volume cash player on PokerStars. Most of us were astonished to not only see that no money was redistributed into the VIP program, but there was also a significant rake increase (5 handed) that was announced in a fashion to deceive players.
I think that we should plan a mass sit out on PokerStars for all limits like we've seen successfully done on Party, Pokerstars.fr, etc. It is important for the site to understand that we, the regulars who contribute the most to the site, don't appreciate being deceived or the rake raised on us simply because they feel they are the monopoly in the online poker world.
I am going to be in the US till January 2nd so I will not be able to participate but I figured we should try to get this done asap.
I say we plan this for January 1st at 12PM EST. Thoughts?
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Edit/MH: See
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Originally Posted by MSauce
I've decided with how fast this thread is evolving updating OP is a hopeless task. I'd have to update it every hour to keep it relevant. I'm just going to continue the discussion here.
The date/time is STILL Jan 1st at 12pm EST and the sitout should continue indefinitely until we see USEFUL changes.
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Edit/MH: See
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve
Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.
As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.
I would like to add a few comments:
The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.
We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.
There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.
In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.
The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.
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Edit/MH: See
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMetetrown
I still stand behind this as what a fair outcome for all is and it seems others agree with me.
1. Rake caps of $.50/$1/$1.5/$2/$3 for 2/3/4/5/6+ handed play
2. 4.5% linear rake up to the cap
PLUS ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TWO OPTIONS
3a. Winner take all rake calculation method
4a. 6x VPP across the board
OR
3b. WC rake calculation method
4b. 6.5x VPP across the board
I don't understand the Fixed Limit situation enough to say how much more they are getting screwed, but either lowering the rake a touch to 4% for FL or letting them keep their current incremental system seems fair if they really are getting hurt by 4.5% linear rake.
Stars makes more in this system, high volume players aren't getting too screwed. This outcome is sustainable. Everyone is happy. It's not everything we want, but it is a fair, reasonable solution.
Quote +1 to let Stars know what we want!
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Edit/MH: See
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSauce
Also, with this type of movement, its the little things that go a long way. If everyone involved could change their 2p2 location to "Sitting out @ PokerStars Jan 1st" that would help build awareness in other locations of 2p2 where this topic isnt as hot.
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Originally Posted by Mrtrebus
Just to illustrat the point that stars would be pocketing extra cash on this:
A supernova elite who would have earned 1 million vpps under the old system and takes a 20% hit to vpps, now only earns 800,000 vpps.
He misses out on his $20k milestone bonus and because of his 5x vpp multiplier now earns 1 million less fpps worth $16,000. He also doesn't earn his $5,200 wcoop seat
Overall $41,200 less than the previous year
Those 200,000 vpps will be distributed mainly to losing/very loose players. Probably mainly bronze, silver and gold star, in that order.
Even if we use the vpp multiplier of a goldstar, 2x, these fpps are only worth a maximum of $4,800 to the players they go to, in reality these fpps vpps will be going to bronze stars and silver stars too, many less fpps will be earned and they will be cashed in at much lower rate.
The highest amount these vpps are likely to earn in milestones for players is $2,400 (this is how much all the milestones/stellar rewards up to supernova are worth.) Again in reality, these vpps will be distributed amongst a large number of players, who will earn an extra $5 or $10 stellar reward, if that.
So with the change to wc, a sne would have $41,200 knocked off his rewards with a maximum of $7,200 been distributed back to other players. With pokerstars pocketing the extra $34,000+
Last edited by Mike Haven; 12-30-2011 at 11:06 AM.
Thoughts on more effective date/time?
