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Old 08-18-2011, 09:30 AM   #1
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Major Issue with BetOnline.com

All,

After scanning around post-BF looking for somewhere to play, I tried betonline.com. I created an account, deposited $500 via MG, and began playing. I stacked a few donks (all Euro players for the most part, but some horrible US players as well), and requested a cashout of $2,500. The fees for the cashout via Western Union are $241 (lol, hilarious costs IMO). This cashout was requested at 3:00 PM EST on 8/17.

Today, at 9:00 AM EST, I try to log into my account. The password is "invalid". So, I use the livechat feature and have this discussion. See below:

Hi! Welcome to BetOnline! How can I help you?
You are now chatting with Sophia
Your Issue ID for this chat is XXX. Please record it in case of pending issue.
Sophia: Thank you for contacting BetOnline Live Chat Service. How may I assist you today?
Tom: Hi, I can't log on to my account. Please help.
Sophia: Hello Tom
Sophia: Could you please provide your account number and password for me?
Tom: Hello
Tom: ID - BXXXXXX
Tom: Password - XXXXXX
Sophia: Thanks Tom, give me a moment to check your account
Sophia: One moment
Tom: Thank you
Sophia: Thanks for holding
Tom: no problem
Sophia: Tom, according to the rules: 1.Only one account allowed per person, family, household and IP address.
Tom: Wait, what?
Tom: I only have one account
Sophia: Upper Management found that you were sharing the same IP ,as 2 other players
Tom: I don't understand
Sophia: Yes, I know you only have one acct, but they noticed you share the same IP as 2 other playesr
Tom: that's impossible
Tom: Please provide this evidence
Tom: I requested a cashout of $2,500 yesterday
Tom: and I feel that my account is being cancelled to avoid the cashout
Tom: What are the two other accounts? These accounts surely aren't in my name.
Sophia: Thomas, what I can do is to request this evidence you want to the Upper management
Sophia: I will contact you back via email
Tom: Is there a phone number that I can call to discuss?
Sophia: as soon as I receive a response
Tom: no, this is unacceptable
Sophia: are you in home?
Tom: yes, my phone number is XXX-XXX-XXXX
Sophia: were you using your account in a public internet coffee ?
Tom: No
Sophia: xxxxxxxx@gmail.com is your email right?
Tom: yes
Sophia: Ok, thanks Tom
Sophia: I will get back to you with a response
Tom: wait
Sophia: thanks for your time
Sophia: Is there anything else I can assist you with at this time?
Tom: wait
Sophia: yeah
Tom: I would like to speak with someone over the telephone


At this point, I call and discuss via telephone. "Sophia" states that the cashout department and IT department are reviewing, and believe that several other accounts were playing at the same time on the same IP address. She told me that "upper management" is reviewing.

I know FOR SURE that this never happened. In playing poker in BetOnline, I played from home (an internet connection that is password protected), or at work (LOL - but definitely a secure connection, and a connection where other players aren't present - I'm positive I'm the only degen in the office).

I feel as though I'm being horribly scammed.

Anyone have any idea how to get in touch with "upper management"? Is there a rep on here?



Thanks,

Tom
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:39 AM   #2
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

I don't think they have a rep here, but I sense another (albeit significantly less significant) limitBOSS type thread in the offing.

It's weird that they haven't given you any details about canceling your account or which the other supposedly MAing accounts were; my gut reaction is to say that you're not lying and they're trying to scam you.

I've never heard of them and they don't seem to be a part of another network, I wouldn't have risked playing there to begin with. How big is the player pool?

My guess is that you won't hear from them again, you need to keep pressing.

Edit: Also, big lol at this: 'were you using your account in a public internet coffee ?'. You've got to make sure you stay away from those public internet coffees.

Last edited by Alrighty Roo; 08-18-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:54 AM   #3
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

I'm going to call them every 12 hours until my life ends. I hope to at least gather the evidence of the "shared" IP addresses.

The player pool is reasonably small, and I've heard that they share the same player pool as the 'Action' poker network. I have read this in other threads, but don't really know the specifics.

I'm in the process of reviewing what others have said on sportsbookreview.com.

Last edited by tklemans; 08-18-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:58 AM   #4
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Jeez? Action poker?

They don't have a great reputation, I'm sure a search for paynorake will produce plenty of people who haven't been paid.

At the moment, all you can do is keep calling. If you still get no where you can do what limitBOSS did and get a lawyer, but it might not be worth it for 2.5k.

Other possible options are going straight to the action network themselves although they might side with their skin. Showing them this thread could help, action may lean on betonline to save their rep. But for now, just keep calling.

Edit: Further research http://pokerscout.com/AllReviews.aspx?id=19 shows that it isn't just paynorake who have a history of not paying players. Action are probably aware of some of this scamming and they might even encourage it, going to them directly is looking less viable.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #5
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

First, this is a skin of Action Poker. I've been able to confirm that by loading Action Poker and BetOnline at the same time. The tables, players, cards, stack sizes, etc... are all the same! I've not been able to determine why they have stated on other forums and in interviews that they are on the Hero Poker Network.

Supposedly, BetOnline operates it's own Cashier independently of Action Poker. Though, who knows what to believe since they have also claimed to be on a different network then they really are.

Now to this:

Quote:
I know FOR SURE that this never happened. In playing poker in BetOnline, I played from home (an internet connection that is password protected), or at work (LOL - but definitely a secure connection, and a connection where other players aren't present - I'm positive I'm the only degen in the office).
If you played from work, then it's very likely that someone else at work could have been playing from the same IP. This is probably why they froze your account until they could investigate it further.

Since BetOnline is primarily a Sportsbook, you should open a complaint with Sportsbook Review(SBR). They will contact BetOnline for you and attempt to work things out on your behalf and normally they have a decent amount of success. Since BetOnline has a B+ Rating on SBR they have a pretty good track record of paying players in the past so hopefully they will be able to get it straightened out.

Also, have you tried to explain that you connected to SBR through work and that it's likely a misunderstanding? If you were actually sitting at the same table as these other players frequently, then they are likely going to keep all of your winnings for collusion whether you intentionally were or not.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #6
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

I just filed a formal complaint at sportsbookreview.com. Hopefully they may be able to get a hold of a representative that can help.

Sounds like this place (and every skin on this network) is a complete scam. Very upset that I was tricked.

I guess there really isn't any valid option for US players. I better request a cashout from my 5Dimes account ASAP. I don't trust anyone at this point.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:09 AM   #7
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by tklemans View Post

I guess there really isn't any valid option for US players.
If it opens up to US players again then Merge is ok (RPM specifically have a good reputation and their own subforum here), Minted is also a viable option, although I've never actually played there myself.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:10 AM   #8
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

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Originally Posted by TiltTheTilt View Post
If you played from work, then it's very likely that someone else at work could have been playing.
With a player pool of only a 200 players or so, and combined with the fact that I was playing 1/2 NL and above, the total number of players I was playing against is probably more like 50.

Out of 50 players, 40 of them were Euros.

So, you are telling me that out of 10 players, not only is 1 of them from my city or state, but actually sitting in my office?

LOL.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:18 AM   #9
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by tklemans View Post
I just filed a formal complaint at sportsbookreview.com. Hopefully they may be able to get a hold of a representative that can help.

Sounds like this place (and every skin on this network) is a complete scam. Very upset that I was tricked.

I guess there really isn't any valid option for US players. I better request a cashout from my 5Dimes account ASAP. I don't trust anyone at this point.
BetOnline is actually a pretty respectable Sportsbook though I have A LOT of concern about their Poker Room because it is affiliated with the Action Poker Network.

Quote:
With a player pool of only a 200 players or so, and combined with the fact that I was playing 1/2 NL and above, the total number of players I was playing against is probably more like 50.

Out of 50 players, 40 of them were Euros.

So, you are telling me that out of 10 players, not only is 1 of them from my city or state, but actually sitting in my office?

LOL.
First, you didn't give any details about how many people were in your office or what stakes you were playing. It does seem highly unlikely, but SBR should be able to get more details on what happened and why they claim there were players from the same IP. What I meant in my post is if there were multiple players that logged in from the same IP, then that would likely be where it happened.

In the end, even if there were other players that logged in from the same IP you should get your money back, IMO. Unless of course you happened to be sitting with those players a large percentage of the time and then of course they are going to claim that you were collluding or multi-accounting. Not saying that you will get your money back though. Like I said, I have a lot of concerns since they are on the Action Poker Network.

Keep us updated on what happens at SBR. There is a rep for BetOnline on SBR I believe.
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Old 08-18-2011, 01:02 PM   #10
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Looks pretty shady on the site for sure, assuming OP is legit.

Good luck getting your money, keep people posted, especially if they keep jerking you around with no proof any wrong doing on your part.
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:01 PM   #11
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

those costs are insane. They did not have any other withdrawal methods available that were cheaper?
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Old 08-18-2011, 02:35 PM   #12
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

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Originally Posted by MrAggromonkey View Post
those costs are insane. They did not have any other withdrawal methods available that were cheaper?
Hardly the point. But, yes, a check for up to $2,500 was available for a cost of $50.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:11 PM   #13
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

I'm not convinced BetOnline is affiliated with APN in any way. Those types of claims can really harm their image in the industry.

They may be licensing the software (I haven't looked) similar to Youwager does but there is no way they are joined up with the network.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:17 PM   #14
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Ughh this is disappointed to even read, sorry to hear this. When are people going to stop playing on these shady sites! PLEASE wait for a more reputable site to open it's doors back up to US players!
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:17 PM   #15
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by fisk View Post
I'm not convinced BetOnline is affiliated with APN in any way. Those types of claims can really harm their image in the industry.

They may be licensing the software (I haven't looked) similar to Youwager does but there is no way they are joined up with the network.
Sorry man, but I wouldn't make that claim without being sure! I know YouWager has the same software and runs their won Network.

If you want to dispute it then take 5 minutes and download both the Action Poker Software and the BetOnline Software. I done this and was able to see the same player including myself sitting at the same tables with the same cards being dealt and the same chip stacks. I along with other 2p2 posters have confirmed they are in fact on the Action Poker Network and before you dispute it take the time to look at the evidence.

I've actually contacted Poker Scout and Poker Scout is in the process of adding BetOnline to the list of Action Poker skins so people won't be confused in the future. NOTE: they did tell me it wouldn't be immediate.

Sorry, but they ARE part of the Action Poker Network. If they did not want that to ruin their reputation then they should have picked a better Network to join, IMO!
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:19 PM   #16
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

BetOnline have only recently began offering poker to their customers. Don't act like this is a new site popping up overnight and scamming people out of their money. These guys have a good rep as it stands.

The poker side may well be provided by APN, I'll have to take a look myself. BUT they are in serious trouble taking US players if this is the case.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:27 PM   #17
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turb0Licious View Post
Ughh this is disappointed to even read, sorry to hear this. When are people going to stop playing on these shady sites! PLEASE wait for a more reputable site to open it's doors back up to US players!
This is just the reality we're living in right now. I expect this problem to continue with random start up rooms that just pop up overnight. Hopefully the positive of this will be a new site that doesn't exist yet that is actually worth the risk.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:34 PM   #18
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Nobody else shocked by the fact that they asked him for his password in live chat?
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:39 PM   #19
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by fisk View Post
BetOnline have only recently began offering poker to their customers. Don't act like this is a new site popping up overnight and scamming people out of their money. These guys have a good rep as it stands.

The poker side may well be provided by APN, I'll have to take a look myself. BUT they are in serious trouble taking US players if this is the case.
I agree that BetOnline has a good reputation on their Sportsbook as they have a B+ rating from SBR(as I mentioned in a previous post). I also never said they have popped up and scammed players. I have said that I think I have A LOT of concern since they are affiliated with the Action Poker Network because of their past history.

Also, I'd be willing to wager that Action Poker Network is aware that BetOnline is accepting US players, though we have no way to ever prove this. It is a perfect oppurtunity for Action Poker Network to take advantage of the US market by adding a skin from the US and having that skin claim they are on another Network.

For a bit of circumstantial evidence, look at how much the Action Poker Network has grown over the past month including the peak traffic on Poker Scout. This is a direct result of BetOnline joining the Network, IMO.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
Nobody else shocked by the fact that they asked him for his password in live chat?
My experiences with Sportsbooks, this is common for some reason. I will admit, that I am not all that experienced with Sportsbooks, but the few I've ever spoken with through Live Chat have always asked this information including some of the most reputable in the industry.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:56 PM   #20
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

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Originally Posted by TiltTheTilt View Post
My experiences with Sportsbooks, this is common for some reason. I will admit, that I am not all that experienced with Sportsbooks, but the few I've ever spoken with through Live Chat have always asked this information including some of the most reputable in the industry.
Is asking for the password not common at other locations? That's an interesting point, because I was on the phone today with 5 Dimes, and was asking about my poker account there. The rep said that he didn't know what my password was, nor did he have access to it.
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:01 PM   #21
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

***UPDATE***

I just received this email:

Hi Thomas,

The following email is in regards to your BetOnline account.

Please be aware that Upper Department is requiring you to send a copy of your Pic ID to validate your account.

Thanks for understanding.

Should you require further assistance or information, please contact us by replying to this email or initiating a Live Chat.

Sincerely,

Sophia
Player Services Department




I responded, attached a copy of my driver's license, and let them know that I also submitted a copy of the license when I submitted my cashout request the first time. (24 hours ago)

So, I wonder what will happen now?
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:34 PM   #22
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

That sounds.... hopeful. Wait a reasonable amount of time for them to 'validate' and hopefully they will do it and this can be put down to a 'miscommunication'.

If nothing happens then send a follow up email.


But seriously, those cash out fees are ridiculous. I've never paid to withdraw money from a site. There is no reputable site I know of that doesn't have a free method of withdrawal.
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:40 PM   #23
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by tklemans View Post
***UPDATE***

I just received this email:

Hi Thomas,

The following email is in regards to your BetOnline account.

Please be aware that Upper Department is requiring you to send a copy of your Pic ID to validate your account.

Thanks for understanding.

Should you require further assistance or information, please contact us by replying to this email or initiating a Live Chat.

Sincerely,

Sophia
Player Services Department




I responded, attached a copy of my driver's license, and let them know that I also submitted a copy of the license when I submitted my cashout request the first time. (24 hours ago)

So, I wonder what will happen now?
Validating your account is standard.

This may be a standard process when BetOnline locates players that played on the same IP and things may indeed work out. Since BetOnline is associated with Action Poker, I think I would be looking elsewhere for my Poker Site, even if it's worked out.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:40 PM   #24
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbracco View Post
Nobody else shocked by the fact that they asked him for his password in live chat?
This is common at some rooms. I know every time you contact Bodog via live chat you basically tell them your life story to prove it's you
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #25
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Re: Major Issue with BetOnline.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turb0Licious View Post
This is common at some rooms. I know every time you contact Bodog via live chat you basically tell them your life story to prove it's you
Agree. For some reason, I've noticed it seems to be more of the Sportsbook sites that tend to ask for this. Maybe it just seems that way, but it was something that seemed to stick out to me.
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