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Old 01-14-2012, 11:00 AM   #176
newschool
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intertops Poker View Post
Hi

The documents you provided could not be accepted because you blocked out all the relevant information required, this includes your photo, date of birth and passport number. To verify your address you inserted a piece of paper with your address printed on it which, of course, we cannot accept.

You were advised to provide a copy of your Passport/ ID page in full and utility Bill/Statement (no older than two months). We want to be able to verify the information that you supplied us with when registering for an account.

If you provide us with these documents we will happily process your withdrawal as quickly as we process any other withdrawal made by our players.


Best regards,

The Intertops Poker Team
The documents you provided could not be accepted, you blocked out all the relevant information required (including your photo and passport number). You where advised to provide a copy of your Passport ID page in full and Bill/Statement showing the header.
You will have to provide this to us and we will process your withdrawal.

Best regards,

The Intertops Poker Team

This was the last pm message between us. I was under the impression that the photo and # was what was in question. I was also under the impression that all other things were visible. Is this the case?

If I resend info without photo and # will you except this?

Will you then return my property?

Regards
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:10 AM   #177
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I went back and reread the beginning of this thread - I had completely forgotten how OP came off when he started the first thread. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they've decided to take a harder line with him than they might with others due to the way he handled things.
Hi Bobo. I did apologize to them through pm's as witnessed by a mod. I did a quick search but could not find it. I will find it when I have more time.

My first thread was at like 4 am. I was drunk and pissed and wanted to rant, vent. I will publicly apologize for this.

I certainly could have handled many things differently and in a more appropriate manner. But after months of non response and what I thought was shadiness. I did not know what else to do.

If you have a suggestion on how I should go forth, while keeping my photo and # private, and getting my property back. I would appreciate it.

Thank you

edit; mods merged this thread when they should have let the first one die. I am sorry for that. Alcohol is a hell of a drug:/

Last edited by newschool; 01-14-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 03:46 PM   #178
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

I just sent new pictures with all things very visible. Except photo and #. I also sent pics of the moneygram receipt and new CC letterhead. There can be no doubts that is my money. Please give it back to me.

TY
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:27 PM   #179
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

To Bobo and Kittens sorry for not addressing your point of just switching photo's. As they wouldn't know the difference. I was going to, but it just seemed so silly that they couldn't verify it being real, photoshopped or blacked out. And when I talked with my friend that could photoshop it for me. He' s a lawyer and said that I would be tampering with, and all sorts of stuff. We argued for a bit. Then decided against it.

It all just seems so silly to me to go through all these hoops to get a check. Maybe Im oldschool or its a brave new world?
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Old 01-14-2012, 11:51 PM   #180
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Oh, how I laughed.
Thats not entirely true of what you quoted. I sent a letterhead not really zoomed in so you couldn't really see the addy. But if I zoomed in on the addy you couldn't see the rest of the letterhead. They said that was the problem. So I then ripped the addy part out and zoomed in on it. Thats what he's talking about, but what he didn't realize, was that it was the same letterhead I sent before.

I sent multiple pics at multiple times. Maybe this was part of the problem?

Anyways, I resent everything and a new cc letterhead. So hopefully no more problems?
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:30 AM   #181
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

hank you for your e-mail.

In order for you to receive a payout you must provide

Driver's license/ Passport ID page
Recent Utility Bill or statement no more than 3 months old verifying the address on file.

Thank you for your understanding and we await your response.

Sincerely,

Cynthia

This was your email response to my resending info. I think a lot of the miscommunication is because I had to deal with multiple people. Hopefully I can just deal with Cynthia and the Intertops rep from now on. Then I only have to deal with two people and they both know the situation.

Again I sent the ID clear as can be. With the photo and # blocked.

The letterhead says it expires in November 23, 2011. Thats under 3 months.

THis is what I mean. I get different criteria everytime I talk to them. And talk to someone new almost everytime. This is where most of the problems are coming from.

Most respectfully to Mr. Intertops and 2+2. Mr Intertops you can't come hear and say I didn't comply then leave and not respond. To the community, I told you. They "need" the photo and # and this is why they will not send. So back to square one I guess????????
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:39 AM   #182
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Again I sent the ID clear as can be. With the photo and # blocked.
Apparently you missed the part about "not blacking those out" in order to provide legit documents.
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:52 PM   #183
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
hank you for your e-mail.

In order for you to receive a payout you must provide

Driver's license/ Passport ID page
Recent Utility Bill or statement no more than 3 months old verifying the address on file.

Thank you for your understanding and we await your response.

Sincerely,

Cynthia

This was your email response to my resending info. I think a lot of the miscommunication is because I had to deal with multiple people. Hopefully I can just deal with Cynthia and the Intertops rep from now on. Then I only have to deal with two people and they both know the situation.

Again I sent the ID clear as can be. With the photo and # blocked.

The letterhead says it expires in November 23, 2011. Thats under 3 months.

THis is what I mean. I get different criteria everytime I talk to them. And talk to someone new almost everytime. This is where most of the problems are coming from.

Most respectfully to Mr. Intertops and 2+2. Mr Intertops you can't come hear and say I didn't comply then leave and not respond. To the community, I told you. They "need" the photo and # and this is why they will not send. So back to square one I guess????????
Just send them what they asked for; Driver's license/ Passport ID page - without blocking anything out, Recent Utility Bill or statement no more than 3 months old verifying the address on file. - not a letter head.

Why can't you get this? If you won't supply them this information then move on. It's their site, their rules. That's the way it goes.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #184
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Apparently you missed the part about "not blacking those out" in order to provide legit documents.
Apparently you missed the whole point of the thread. They want it but do not need this. They cannot verify it anyway. Are you saying that I have not been verified already?

After sending the receipt, starting this thread, id, cc statement. After being verified by a independent third party, moneygram. And being verified by fire here. Are you saying that my claim is illegitimate? How so? Because I don't want them to database my personal info? ie photo and #. For no reason, to do whatever with, by whomever. When all I want to do is close the account and cashout?

Are they "protecting" me from my money at this point. Or are they "protecting" themselves from paying??


And some of you wonder why I am mad? How long do we have to go around in circles?


Sigh...

Edit: I also offered to send a notary statement. Or to take WU,MG and verify in person, like I had to do to send the payment. How much more do I need to provide???Seriously??

Last edited by newschool; 01-15-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:21 PM   #185
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Just send them what they asked for; Driver's license/ Passport ID page - without blocking anything out, Recent Utility Bill or statement no more than 3 months old verifying the address on file. - not a letter head.

Why can't you get this? If you won't supply them this information then move on. It's their site, their rules. That's the way it goes.
I asked them if they would send me their info. They declined. If I decline to send photo and #, I'm the ahole???? If they asked for a iris scan or dna. Would you send it? What if they asked for something you thought was unreasonable, for a reason, easily debunked? Would you send it?

You can do what you want with your stuff. Allow me to do what I want with mine. Please review the movie I posted a few pages back. This will show you why I don't want to send it.

Thank you
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #186
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Just send them what they asked for; Driver's license/ Passport ID page - without blocking anything out, Recent Utility Bill or statement no more than 3 months old verifying the address on file. - not a letter head.

Why can't you get this? If you won't supply them this information then move on. It's their site, their rules. That's the way it goes.
Sorry I did not address the "it's their rules" part in my last response.
Again I was unaware of this caveat. If I would have known from the beginning I would not have joined there. I am not the only one that was unaware of such things.

I also pointed out that the TOS was vague or misleading. And can be interpreted either way. I am not the only one that feels this way. Intertops should add to and or change this.

I liken it to going into a store. We all know, they have the right to refuse customers. So we go into the store to buy some gas, we give the money. Then the guy behind the counter says they need ID and wants to photocopy it. We refuse because there is no reason for it, even though the guy says "its to protect us". We respectfully disagree and say we'll take our business elsewhere. The guy behind the counter says thats ok, but he's going to have to keep the money and the gas until we comply. He then points to the sign that says they have the right to refuse us.

Well thats fine if we would have known this in the beginning. We would have never went there. But since it wasn't known from the beginning, is where the problem lies. And is IMO "shady" for lack of a better word. I am not the only one that feels this way as evidenced ITT.
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Old 01-15-2012, 02:37 PM   #187
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
Well thats fine if we would have known this in the beginning. We would have never went there. But since it wasn't known from the beginning, is where the problem lies. And is IMO "shady" for lack of a better word. I am not the only one that feels this way as evidenced ITT.
Not sure about the we part because this is common standard these days at online poker and the majority of the players is aware of it as well. Doesn't quite explain your stubborn unwillingness though to provide the required documents, but after all it is your money that is stuck. You could have had it months ago already but chosen to refuse any cooperation.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #188
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Apparently you missed the part about "not blacking those out" in order to provide legit documents.
Legit documents you say. Can you prove that the docs I sent were fraudulent? Can you prove my docs are legit? Answer to both is no. Well either can they. Would a photo or # change this? No

I am tiring of the armchair Columbo's or the wanna-be CSI agents. Coming up with all sorts of falsehoods, substantiated by nothing. Are you saying my claim is illegitimate? How about the MG receipt? Did I fake all of this? Am I just making up the fact they have my money and will not return it?How much more"proof" do I need?

Please tell us the story of how I am underage and can forge docs but can't photoshop a pic. And how I am crazy for not wanting my supposedly fake ID to be databased by them. If it was fake, I wouldn't care.

And not one person here or at Intertops can point out one fraudulent thing I have done, based on fact or reality. Why? because I have not. And yet I am still guilty of what, wanting my property back??

I have been treated like a criminal by them and all sorts here, even though I NEVER did anything wrong. Other then saying somethings, in a way which might offend. Even though all of my sniddy comments were provoked. I still must be guilty of something? Right?

Sorry if I put words in your mouth or if I went off topic of your quote. But this is what it seems like to me.
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Old 01-15-2012, 03:36 PM   #189
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Not sure about the we part because this is common standard these days at online poker and the majority of the players is aware of it as well. Doesn't quite explain your stubborn unwillingness though to provide the required documents, but after all it is your money that is stuck. You could have had it months ago already but chosen to refuse any cooperation.
Sorry it's not standard in my experience. This is the first time for me, I have played 6+ and cashed out of all. I believe Bobo Fett said he's played 60 and only two asked for photo's. So with all due respect you can't make that claim. If this is the case that it's so open and standard. Why am I not the only one that feels that its not?

What is wrong with full disclosure from the beginning? Not just speculation and innuendo.

If you feel I have violated the TOS then let me cashout and move on. I do not wish to play there. They can have the TOS, just give me back my property. If I wanted to still play there, you would have a point and I should comply. But I do not, its a wash, split pot, let me get my chips and cashout.

Edit: Sorry the we part was describing the hero in this situation. We should call here..we should shove flop here..ect..
And you saying I have refused any cooperation is a giant misnomer, and is just not true.

Last edited by newschool; 01-15-2012 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:04 PM   #190
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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And you saying I have refused any cooperation is a giant misnomer, and is just not true.
Yeah, how could anyone misconstrue you submitting a picture of "ID" with all relevant information blocked out as you refusing to cooperate?

They've made it pretty clear that they want to see your ID to give you your money, and you've made it clear that you refuse to give that to them.

How is posting the same thing over and over going to change anything?
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Old 01-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #191
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Yeah, how could anyone misconstrue you submitting a picture of "ID" with all relevant information blocked out as you refusing to cooperate?

They've made it pretty clear that they want to see your ID to give you your money, and you've made it clear that you refuse to give that to them.

How is posting the same thing over and over going to change anything?
Back at square one again, are we? Can you or they tell me what they verify this info against? If I have not provided it already? So then, whats the point?????Have I not been verified enough already?On multiple levels?? Why do they need to database this info to close the account and send MY money. I do not agree to this.

I'm not going to rehash the whole thread. But instead of going in circles just answer those questions, although you haven't before. I will ask again.

I have went out of my way to address all things directed at me. But like I said earlier, all you have is "because we told you so". Well I don't agree and I think its shady to not tell us what its being stored/used for. I offered my suggestion as to why its so "valuable" to them, but only they know and they will not answer. So, were left to draw our own conclusions.

But the going in circles is why I was so angry and proves everything I have said earlier, to be true. They are holding my property hostage against my will and under false pretenses. Essentually robbing me. I was attacked by many saying I was crazy for bringing that up, and here it' s been true the whole time. The circles are only coming from you guys. ie its standard, cause they say, personal attack. I would agree, you should stop that. No more circles

At this point I'm the most "verified,""unverified"person on earth. WHy all the games still???

And why are you still here otatop? It seems strange you would still be here unless you had a personal stake in it. I mean thats why Im here. Or do you get off seeing people forced to do things they do not agree to? For BS reasons. Is that it? you just have to see me submit, lick some boots?This will make you feel better? Finish off your "circle" jerk?You lil freak you.

What changes is the more people that see what they do to me, and how they don't actually answer anything. Hopefully they will then ask Would they do this to me? Would they be responsive and answer a concern I have?? Or would they say, it just is, we say so, our rules, gotcha. Isn't Full Tilt doing something similar?? Not answering, or being held to account. In Full Tilt's eyes screwing the customer is standard and part of their TOS.

Again I did not agree to this. And would have not joined if I would have known. I have proof that's my money. These three facts no one can dispute. So whats the reason for me not getting my property back?Oh yeah its standard, you told me so, Im just stupid.
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Old 01-15-2012, 07:07 PM   #192
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

I haven't got anything new to add, but OP asked me to give some input, so I will once again.

The reason you're going around in circles is because you're...going around in circles. They want unaltered ID, you won't give it to them, and until one of you moves off your position, nothing's going to change.

As for the theft silliness, it's still just that...silliness. Theft implies some kind of intent. I believe you'd get your money back if everything is legit from your side and you gave them your ID, so there is no intent to steal anything from you.

You keep talking about them wanting to verify the unverifiable. While that's true, it always will be. Should we all forget IDing people just because we can never be certain the ID isn't fake? As I said before...

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There's no way they can be 100% sure of his identity - even meeting him in person with his passport wouldn't be foolproof. But it would be better than a photo of him holding his passport, which would be better than an unaltered copy of his passport, which would be better than an altered copy of his passport. They've drawn their line at an unaltered copy.
You haven't provided them with any ID so far - altered ID is not ID.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:20 PM   #193
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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I haven't got anything new to add, but OP asked me to give some input, so I will once again.

As for the theft silliness, it's still just that...silliness. Theft implies some kind of intent. I believe you'd get your money back if everything is legit from your side and you gave them your ID, so there is no intent to steal anything from you.
Thanks for coming by Bobo. Sorry if I chose the wrong words. It may have not been their intent to begin with. But how is it not their intent now? Is it all that silly to think an internet poker site would angle shoot their customers? This hasn't happened before?

I now believe, it was their intent to make it difficult to cashout. By not fully and openly disclosing all the security "requirements." This was brought up by others in ITT.

Which if I would have known I would not have joined. I am not the only one that feels that they should state that from the beginning. Are their customers wrong for wanting full disclosure? Or is this just the way it is?

I have also sent and offered all sorts of alternatives. They have refused all and have not provided any alternative to the problem. And somehow I am being uncooperative?

I should just do as they say, I can trust them, because they say so. That they need to verify something in which they can't verify. Its for someone's protection? Therefore gotcha.

Your really telling me I have to buy that sht??That I should just go along, just because? Did you see the movie I posted? And no one has addressed the fact moneygram already verified me and I have the receipt to prove this.

Would you send me your info? If not, why not? This is the same reason I don't want to send to them.

What if I already have your money? And say you need to send your info to get it back? Then what? What is that called? If you bought something from ebay and the seller refused to send until you verified yourself? Even though paypal pre-verified you? Should you just go along? What would that be called?

Respectfully

Last edited by newschool; 01-15-2012 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:35 PM   #194
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Thanks for coming by Bobo. Sorry if I chose the wrong words. It may have not been their intent to begin with. But how is it not their intent now?
How is it their intent now? What's changed? They're asking for the same thing they always were. Of course, they could be trying to take your money. I think it's pretty unlikely.

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Which if I would have known I would not have joined. I am not the only one that feels that they should state that from the beginning. Are their customers wrong for wanting full disclosure? Or is this just the way it is?
They told you they have the right to verify your identity. The only thing they didn't disclose was the exact way in which they would do that, and it probably wouldn't be practical to do so.

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I have also sent and offered all sorts of alternatives. They have refused all and have not provided any alternative to the problem. And somehow I am being uncooperative?
I do think it's a shame some alternative method can't be found that would satisfy them and you. But I have no idea if this is the result of one of you being unreasonable.

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Would you send me your info? If not, why? What if I already have your money? And say you need to send your info to get it back? Then what? What is that called?
Why would I send you my info? Or my money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by newschool View Post
If you bought something from ebay and the seller refused to send until you verified yourself? Even though paypal pre-verified you? Should you just go along?
Not unless I agreed to something like this:

Quote:
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9 SECURITY CHECKS, REVIEWS AND RELEASES: INTERTOPS reserves the right to verify Your identity and the fidelity of the information YOU HAVE SUPPLIED by making various security and ID checks.
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Old 01-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #195
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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How is it their intent now?

I do think it's a shame some alternative method can't be found that would satisfy them and you. But I have no idea if this is the result of one of you being unreasonable.
I agree. What else can I do?


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Why would I send you my info? Or my money?
To play z pokerz?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Not unless I agreed to something like this:
YOU HAVE PROVIDED. Is the key statement IMO. But we could argue forever about each word in it. Like Bill Clinton asking for a definition and context for "as" when he was before congress for getting his BJ.

edit: You never addressed the moneygram already verifying me thing.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #196
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Back at square one again, are we? Can you or they tell me what they verify this info against? If I have not provided it already? So then, whats the point?????Have I not been verified enough already?On multiple levels?? Why do they need to database this info to close the account and send MY money. I do not agree to this.
In case you have missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
You haven't provided them with any ID so far - altered ID is not ID.
That is the point. Now what would you do if someone hacked your account, sent in a fake ID with blacked out details and cashed out the money. You would complain about the lack of security.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #197
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

what I've taken from this thread is OP is quite stubborn
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:33 PM   #198
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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what I've taken from this thread is OP is quite stubborn
Stubborn or Principled. Tomato or Tomatoe.

Cheers!
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #199
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I agree. What else can I do?


To play z pokerz?


YOU HAVE PROVIDED. Is the key statement IMO. But we could argue forever about each word in it. Like Bill Clinton asking for a definition and context for "as" when he was before congress for getting his BJ.

edit: You never addressed the moneygram already verifying me thing.
They are trying to verify the information you have provided when you signed up to play poker on their site. Why is this so hard to understand?

Moneygram has nothing to do with this.

Why do you trust moneygram with your infomation but not Intertops?
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:42 PM   #200
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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That is the point. Now what would you do if someone hacked your account, sent in a fake ID with blacked out details and cashed out the money. You would complain about the lack of security.
What if someone hacked your account, sent in a fake ID without blacked out details, and cashed out the money?
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