Ok lets make a bet then. You pick the escrow. IRS documents will be the evidence. You are obviously just trolling here so get lost.

Dave said it would not make much sense for a small traffic site to have superusers, and it would make more sense for a larger site. Wouldn't that be the opposite of conventional thinking? I mean if you get caught and lose your small business I would imagine they would just go create another small business. And continue to cheat. While AP and UB were both so big that if they went completely under because of the incident it would be nearly impossible for them to rebuild.

Melina

As a comment thou on this thread, i am not ruling out the possiblities of a site having a super user account. Chester could be %100 correct on his accusations.

I just dont know what proof he can find on suspicous play by players when they're hands are not called and therefore not revealed in the hand historys.

Ie: Chester is betting with air and i know this because i got a super user account, so, i raise him to get him to fold and i take down the pot.

I then continue to do this all night long. Well, unless he calls my reraise, then my cards are never exposed. It doesnt matter if Chester loads all the hand historys on his computer, as my raises were not called and my whole cards will not be revealed to Chester. Only the site has access to what I had.

Now, lets assume i have a super user account and I raise with ace king and Chester calls with a small pocket pair of 3's. The flop comes ace ten 3 and i check and Chester bets half the pot and i fold.(because i have super user account and my odds of winning this hand are around %3) This would be proof i can see the cards. But, Even if Chester went to the hand history of this hand, again, my cards wont be known by him in the hand Historys.

Only Pitbull would know the hand that i pocessed.(or they should be able to know what i had, i hope lol)

Now, Chester and Rapala have deemed shady play at Pitbull and they have written to them on this regard. They have stated their case to them and have given them some user names of players who they feel are the cheaters.

Pitbull should have the ability to look into many hands that these players have played on their sites and should been able to determine this ( if their was cheating or not)on their own. They have access to what cards they are folding and doing reraises with. But i have not once heard Pitbull state that a followup was done on Chesters and Rapalas concerns.

If these players are folding top pair and top kickers (after preflop raising) to players who make a set on the flop, it is definetly an indication of some form of cheating going on.

All i am saying is that if i was the boss of Pitbull poker and i recieved an email from a customer who has suspicions of shady play on my site, and provides me with the players names, u can bet the farm i would investigate this further.

I'd by pulling up the hands of these players and examine their playing styles, to determine if what Chester is stating is true or fiction. If i found nothing alarming, id then email Chester and explain to him my findings. Of course i wouldnt reveal the hands but, id at least say the play of the players mentioned were reviewed and nothing out of the ordinary was found.

From what i been reading, Pitbull didnt do any of this and for that reason alone,shady play and cheating cannot be ruled out at Pitbull Poker.

I know in the past that i have expected collusion on some poker sites and i have emailed the sites to tell them and have included the users names of the suspected cheats to them.

At the reputable sites that i have played at, they always send me back and email stating that they take cheating very seriously and will get back to me in a few days after reviewing my accusations. On some occasions, they have revieded the hands in question and have sent me back emails stating that the play was suspicious and that they will keep an eye on these players in future hands. It at least made me feel that the site was watching my back and took my concerns seriously. I dont get that same impression from Pitbull Poker

Just my 2 cents.

You can guarantee they weren't 5 months? You must have some inside info then IE you are a pitbull employee or something trying to discredit me lol. Just for fun here are some quotes from the prop site.

"I received my cashout overnight DHL. I was very pleased until i went to my bank and was told i have to wait 6 to 8 weeks for them to send this check to collections, and THEN ill get my money. This is impossible, how can u expect people to wait this long to get paid? Any other americans having this problem?"

the following was posted on 5/15:

"...This is getting pretty rediculous...I have contacted their live support 5-6 times and they still give me the same story..."it should be there this week"...can u contact them ...i made the 3k withdrawal march 11th...thanks"

Rapala posted the following:

"I wouldn't hold your breath for your cashout, mine took 3 month and my friends nearly 5 months for a $4k cashout. When asked why it's taking so long the answer is always 'I'll make it my priority to get this sorted out for you as quickly as possible'. lol"

What Cainer says is true. The nature of the cheating makes it hard to demonstrate by hand history. Most of the hands don't go to showdown. All I can say is that I was owned with perfect accuracy by these guys playing me out of position. They donk bet when I had air or had me beat, and check/folded when I had them beat. I believe if we can get these hands in a database it will show a ridiculously high donk bet %, and remarkable accuracy on the few hands that went to showdown. It will show that almost always when they donk bet me, I had nothing. And almost always when I had something, they didn't donk bet.

And once again I repeat that all we are asking for are the 1000 hands of lhe rapala played. Thats not such a huge demand I don't think.

I can vouch for the unreliable customer service. They offered a free $10, no deposit bonus and I felt like taking them up on it. After I sign up, I find out that I have to contact support to claim it.

No problem. I contact support, confirm my phone number and am told I'll receive a call within twenty minutes to verify my information and then the bonus will be released. The call doesn't come.

A few weeks later, I try again, get told the same thing, and the call still doesn't come.

I don't know about any of this cheating stuff, but I can't really recommend them. It seems like if you ever had any problem it would be a really big hassle to get things worked out.

I was pretty convinced by chester throughout the whole post until the hand posted by Charlotte Fatman and the leaving with 60$.

+1 to both posts by cainer. Spoke my mind.

Sorry suzzer I missed this post earlier.

Pigbot is definitely a different person. I can prove my identity. I am well known on the onlinepropping.com forum and have been one of the most active props there for the last 5 years or so. Rob the manager of rakebacknation can vouch for both myself and pigbot as being seperate, legitimate and very active players over a long period of time.

I believe the 1000 hands will clearly show that there is cheating. Ask any lhe expert and they will tell you that never calling with a worse hand over 1000 hands of 4 handed play is 100% proof of cheating.

As far as the other hands i am interested in (the 2/5 nl) I think they will show a pretty clear pattern of donk betting when i am losing, and only when I am losing.

I would certainly appreciate any help on this. Rob is also looking into hiring a programmer so that we can settle this one way or the other.

As a prop this isn't something I enjoy doing because our job is to support small sites and help them grow. We are supposed to be quiet about prop programs. Bashing a site like this is something I hate to do and I know it puts Rob in a tough spot but I feel it is necessary in order to help keep the small sites honest for everyone.

Hi guys,

I want to quote Cainer who has been the ONLY one who understand how the process works:

"All i am saying is that if i was the boss of Pitbull poker and I received an email from a customer who has suspicions of shady play on my site, and provides me with the players names, u can bet the farm i would investigate this further.

I'd by pulling up the hands of these players and examine their playing styles, to determine if what Chester is stating is true or fiction. If i found nothing alarming, id then email Chester and explain to him my findings. Of course I wouldn't reveal the hands but, id at least say the play of the players mentioned were reviewed and nothing out of the ordinary was found."

Not once Chesterboy has sent me such details, he describes the hands a "hero bets", "villain raises", "mate calls"... how am I supposed to give credibility to such complaints when I am not given the adequate information. I don't need to know you have cashed 7 figure numbers, or how many years you have played this game online, or how many sites. I mean let's get real, that's peanuts when it comes to making an accusation. I can only work with data that actually exists on the system, otherwise is like shouting to an empty room.

Send me screen names, dates, times, table names, hand numbers, etc. I will be more than glad to investigate, it is in our higher concern to identify and eliminate possible collusion at our tables.

And as to why my reasoning of our small site not using super user accounts is because, is not now, but long ago such accounts would have been spotted. A larger site such as AP or UB would have never been noticed because a handful of accounts would be lost and missed among the thousands of players who connect there daily, like was mentioned before, they were spotted because of a HH that was sent showing ALL information, otherwise they would still be there taking money away and no one would know. You see my point? Larger places have more potential of winning more without getting so much heat. You think otherwise? Tell that to the $7 MILLION dollars estimated that potripper took from the players. Hardly a small site like ours would be able to think of 1% of that money using something as dumb as a superuser account.

Thanks again to everyone.

Dave Brenes
Network Manager
Pitbull Poker
Pitbull Partners

Please consider that IF there is cheating it wouldn't be too unrealistic for pitbull to get in here and post stuff to try and discredit me. I don't know Charlotte Fatman. But if that hand really happened a hand history would be pretty cool. If it was the last hand they played on the site it would be easy to find. Honestly it doesn't really fit with the pattern of cheating I suspect though. But I would love to see the history if it is real. That would be a fun one to add to the thread.

uhm if u get the 1k HHs or how many there are, it'll be blatently obvious that those guys arer superusers, because the river AF will be .

thats exactly the reason youre not getting your HH's either, because retarded people had those accounts once again and were too dumb to cheat "smart"

Dave you are not qualified to judge if there is cheating or not for 2 reasons:

1. If there is cheating it is most likely an inside job and you will do your best to hide it.

2. You made it clear in another thread you are not a poker player. I was asking you to fix the pot limit calculator and you clearly didn't understand what I was talking about.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...t#post11321982

You are obviously not qualified to review things for us.

In this case the cheating we suspect does not lead to showdown very often. To prove or disprove such cheating we need to see a decent sample, not any one hand. 1 hand is meaningless. That is why we are asking for the 1000 hands of lhe rapala played. It will give us the most information in the least number of hands, making it easy on everyone.

Reading the thread I thought it sounded like a bit of a beat up, the description of the suspected superuser's play just sounds like typical fish randomness that you find on some of the smaller sites.

This though is just some WTF backwards logic. The small sites that make less money and may actually be struggling to profit have less incentive to steal than the big sites with high traffic and profits?

I am trying right now to find more fishy hands and can't even get the page to load. This is why I haven't put together more evidence!

lol this is gem. pbdave makes clear that it's possible for them to create superuser accounts, but they're so honest that they wouldn't do that.

[ ] You understand hypotheticals.