I cannot win on pokerstars. Reasons ?? - Page 25 - Internet Poker

You seem to know a great deal about the thought processes of the people who run Pokerstars but I have not suggested that they are fraudulently making someone win or lose.

You said:

Quote:

...I believe it is being manipulated to make it more exciting in an attempt to attract players over it's competitors...

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, you are saying that the deal is being manipulated to make someone win or lose. How else can that statement be interpreted?

Quote:

It is interesting though that you have not responded to my suggestion that they profit by making the games more exciting for lesser players by skewing the deal.

Yes I did, by highlighting that you have no evidence to support this offensive claim. Similarly, there is no evidence to support the idea that you are a criminal, so I don't suggest that you are a criminal.

09-07-2008 , 01:38 AM

#602

KingofKevdom

stranger

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

The fact that something that has just a small chance to happen, and subsequently does happen, itself suggests that the shuffle is truly random.

How can you expect something to be random, yet not sometimes give surprising results? By its very nature, something that is random should be unpredictable, as you (unfortunately) discovered.

It makes no sense to suggest that predictable outcomes (in this case, the favourite always winning) are a part of any random process.

How many should there be?

I've seen many people make all sorts of wild claims in life. I know many people who genuinely believe in Santa Claus - but the simple fact that there are a large number of people who believe something does not make it right.

Out of all the people who believe that there is some sort of biased shuffle on PokerStars, *NOT ONCE* has anyone ever provided any credible evidence or logic to support their claim. Not once has anyone proven to crack the shuffle - because it simply is not possible. It is a genuinely random shuffle with no algorithm code that can be cracked behind it.

What evidence to you have to support your claims?

It would be cheating if it were happening.

Your emails suggesting that they are somehow trying to adjust the hands is directly accusing PokerStars of running some bizarre sort of international fraud, when this could not be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that they don't really care who wins each hand - they just shuffle the cards randomly and deal them out. They receive no benefit from making you lose (or making you win) and they receive no benefit from making other players win (or lose). That's just how poker works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

You said:

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here, you are saying that the deal is being manipulated to make someone win or lose. How else can that statement be interpreted?

You could interpret it literally. I'm not saying it is being manipulated to make SOMEONE win or lose, I'm saying it is being manipulated to make the games more exciting.

Yes I did, by highlighting that you have no evidence to support this offensive claim. Similarly, there is no evidence to support the idea that you are a criminal, so I don't suggest that you are a criminal.

No, you didn't, and an irrelevant analogy doesn't address it either.

09-07-2008 , 02:45 AM

#603

Josem

human chemical weapon

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 18,189

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofKevdom

No, you didn't, and an irrelevant analogy doesn't address it either.

1) I think I did address it, but to put this idea to rest, let me address it below.

2) No, the analogy is not irrelevant. It is a perfect metaphor for what is happening here. You're accusing someone of a massive international crime, with no evidence to support such an accusation. It would be inappropriate to accuse you of crime without such evidence, so why should it be different for anyone else?

It is not irrelevant to compare the unjustness of your accusation with how you would feel if the situation is reversed.

********************

Now, to specifically disprove the claim:

Quote:

I believe it is being manipulated to make it more exciting in an attempt to attract players over it's competitors.

Let me quote from my earlier post on the subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

OK then, 'cause I'm a sucker for this stuff.

Here are two independent studies that prove random distributions:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...7dc4a7f?hl=en&

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...7010a4879f4c6b

Here's the announcement by Cigital that they had analysed the source code and found it to be entirely in order:

http://www.cigital.com/news/?pg=art&artid=86

And here's the proof that the thermal noise is random:

http://www.cryptography.com/resource...s/IntelRNG.pdf

09-07-2008 , 04:14 AM

#604

jukofyork

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 11,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofKevdom

Stats be damned, from the first hand I was dealt on pokerstars I suspected something wasn't right

Science be dammed - I vote we all go back to living in caves!

Quote:

and now that I have searched the web there are too many people who agree with me.

LOL, did you also search for the "Flat Earth Society" or "Illuminati"?

and how could you bring yourself to bump this god awful thread? Shame on you...

Juk

09-07-2008 , 06:02 AM

#605

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofKevdom

Stats be damned, from the first hand I was dealt on pokerstars I suspected something wasn't right

You lost all credibility right here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingofKevdom

It is interesting though that you have not responded to my suggestion that they profit by making the games more exciting for lesser players by skewing the deal.

Probably because this accusation has been made about 247,384 times before, about all different sites. Much like your post, such accusations are almost always accompanied by NO evidence.

09-07-2008 , 08:47 AM

#606

99killed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,188

sigh- i usually get the money in as a favorite but i only usually win?!?!?

so tired of this ZOMG RIGGED bs but thanks to AP/UB it will never die.

09-07-2008 , 09:23 AM

#607

6471849653

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlinePro

Without counting FPPs I have not had a winning month on stars all year long. Every table I sit at, I look at the player with the most money on the table and its always the worst player, and he continues to win non stop. Seems like the worse the players get the more they win.

That trend started in December 2006 against me, and those loose players came there two months earlier. It's a phenomenon that happened at limit to me and for others at least up to 2/4 nl, and it happened at PLO too. Not just to me; I saw it happening to others too. But what comes to the worst player winning, more often he was about break even, just like me, mainly because he beat me most of the time. At tables where I wasn't yet, there were often just two winning players, and the other was the biggest fish, and he remained at the top.

Lately I have been videotaping my sessions using the camstudio thing, and it confirms my beleifs that I just cannot stop getting bad beats, and bad players making terrible plays always get rewarded. The emphamous raise on the turn with 3 outs and hit the river works on me about 90% of the time.

Not in my experience when it comes to Stars. It was a phenomenon at Tilt, and it wasn't 90% but could have been 50%.

I will be posting up videos shortly on my website, for the whole world to whitness the insane amounts of bad beats I have to suffer on a daily basis

I am way passed thinking online poker is rigged, I already know it is, but what I am trying to figure out is who and why they reward.

It seems they want to kick out the bigger winners; maybe because they win too much (I always had at least a big win rate at that point). I remember how Stars 10-20 limit games got suddenly good just after they had started to kick out the strongest players. Generally, one might expect that that fish is being helped, as he is but why help the biggest fish in the universe? While if one keeps playing one should be able to break about even, with perfect play, and when one's win rate gets lower, the chances are good one will be making profits again. At least my game has been back to normal in 2008, that it wasn't for the whole year of 2007 at Stars.

Looking at my pokertracker stats I have gotten high pockets an unreal amount of times excact numbers coming up below

AA 971 times
KK 882
QQ 929
JJ 785
1010 1032

Out of 84 thousand hands. My aces are winning 80% of the time but nothing else is winnign over 65% with kings being at 64 and queens at 61%

How can you run sooo bad for sooo long, even the biggest fish have winning months.

I wouldn't trust too much to what the stats say as I have had long long runs of running below normal, and the stats do not show anything significant.

09-07-2008 , 11:45 AM

#608

jukofyork

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 11,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99killed

so tired of this ZOMG RIGGED bs but thanks to AP/UB it will never die.

LOL, it does seem pretty funny that the whole scandal appears to have almost no effect on the sites themselves (they don't seem to be losing any players, etc), but instead it's given some nice fuel to all the rigtards.

Juk

09-14-2008 , 12:47 AM

#609

sdexcid

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 98

I am an avid poker player of 11 years. I have played live for 9 years and have played online for two years. In both games I am up money obviously or i wouldnt be playing. I signed up for an account on poker stars. I have never in my life seen the bad beats I have seen there. The most amazing beats ever. And they happen like its normal. I played 750 hands there in 750 hands this is what happened.

A3 in BB..SB has 77 min raises my blind...flop A 3 7

on bubble ak vs aq flop aqq k q

just in the money AA vs 22...flop 239

QQ vs 10 10 flop 678 9 4

AA vs 88 flop A82 turn 8 3

AQ vs Aj.. flop AQ10 k 2

aj vs at..flop aj432 he hits 4 cards flush

JJ vs qk flop J72 he hits 4 card flush

short stack a8 vs aq..flop a88 q q

99 vs 10 10...flop 982 j q

aq vs a3 flop aq2 45

Now this is only 11 hands. I have 345 more hands like this exactly. So they are telling me in 750 hands just under half of those hands i take the most horrific beats when most times he is drawing quite thin. I understand that 20% of the time the othe rplayer will and can win.....but not this not like this ever. In one day of playing there (not even) I took more bad beats than I took in 6 months of playing live poker 3 days a weak 10 hour session. That just doesnt make sense whether they deal twice as many hands. It just doe snot make sense. every single time I was againt a deepstack never ever would i suck out ever. but his hands when he got his money in bad won 80% of the time and I was the 20% when it should have been flipped around.
poker stars was one of the most rigged thing ive ever seen in my entire life. It obviously creates action for profit and to keep the biggest idiots around. because there is no way in my life do i lose to so many horrid fish players. live we eat them u and send them home broke crying. here they win like they are good. All so they stay and play and give business. Its unrealsitic to say the least. and I got real sick of the deepstack favoring. So I cashed out and left and sent a complaint to some gaming officials, which really wont help cause they are protected by their auditors who make a bundel off of poker stars business.

09-14-2008 , 02:35 AM

#610

sabinal

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 144

There are great training sites. Software to learn from on your computer. Hell, there is even a good book company (hint..your on the site).

stop whining? and keep playing... I see you there

Kind of like wanting a 1400 on the SAT. Ah.. just learn more!!! keep the game good!

09-14-2008 , 02:41 AM

#611

keikiwai

BBV Lollercoaster Safety Technician

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,961

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabinal

There are great training sites. Software to learn from on your computer. Hell, there is even a good book company (hint..your on the site).

i heard intelli poker is one helluvan awesome training school offered by poker stars

they even give you bonuses for getting to use the best avatar icon ever

06-27-2012 , 01:23 PM

#612

braddaz

stranger

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyst

I don't believe these numbers of pocket pairs either. On average, you should get AA, etc. 381 times out of 84k hands. It's not worth dragging out the stats book, but there is simply no way you got dealt this many big pairs unless the 84k is a typo.

If by some miracle you did, and still aren't beating the game, well . . .

By the way, the winning percentages (80% for AA, 64% for KK) seem pretty reasonable, so it's not like you're getting cracked too often.

your naivety provails you "PKERSTARS IS RIGGED" but when you learn the pattern you will be in good stead.make deduction fully from your account then deposit small amount get you roi back up. watch pokerstars player shaniac a great tournemant payout he is in the payouts every game without fail might give you an insite. i play everday because i deposit so little i wont win a thing and never will because the algorythms that the software produce has completely adapted to my game play they can see me coming a mile so i have to throw about 50 hands chuck all in on dog **** prefferable 10 4 off suit (which ive hit 3 times today) and i get a quick double up then it reels me in i get aa which holds 2 of 4 times kk i loose to small stack 66 (players also had 77 88) AQs AJs AJ Aj Ak 10 10 an win **** all . i play live poker as much as possible everyday preferably and thank god i make a deacent prift nothing spectacular but i live well. pokerstars seeem to play better when you play loose aggressive (which i dont like because its allways the one hand that takes me out but yet its a great style) i have had my suspions for a long time and have contact with the isle of man gaming comission to try and get some sort of reasoning but my reaserch has a long way to go.

06-27-2012 , 02:53 PM

#613

MicroBob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 61,575

Omg.

Quality post. Outstanding bump. What a great blast from the past. Thanks so much.

10-26-2014 , 06:52 PM

#614

ryansnow4

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 1

I have never won on poker stars, won thousands on party poker.

Bad beats seem to happen more on poker stars for me and have been my demise every time.

Just got put out of a tournament after losing two all-ins, my AK lost to 69 and my KK lost to AQ.

After the full tilt scandal i wouldn't be surprised if pokerstars was sketchy in some way

10-26-2014 , 07:36 PM

#615

5thStreetHog

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,687

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroBob

Omg.

Quality post. Outstanding bump. What a great blast from the past. Thanks so much.

That^

(Its been a long time since I quoted Bob I had to take advantage of this great opportunity)

10-26-2014 , 08:06 PM

#616

jukofyork

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 11,749

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryansnow4

Interesting...

Juk

10-26-2014 , 09:02 PM

#617

AnotherMakiavelli

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,451

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlinePro

i don't beleif you.

10-26-2014 , 09:50 PM

#618

madcatz1999

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,274

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlinePro

Looking at my pokertracker stats I have gotten high pockets an unreal amount of times excact numbers coming up below

AA 971 times
KK 882
QQ 929
JJ 785
1010 1032

Out of 84 thousand hands.

Nope. This is not true.

10-27-2014 , 03:32 AM

#619

Bobo Fett

Carpe Diem

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherMakiaveli

i don't beleif you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by madcatz1999

Nope. This is not true.

You guys are replying to 7 year old posts from a long-since banned poster.

This thread was created before we had the rigged containment thread, so I'll lock this up now.

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