Um, I did when I answered your initial question about this. Then I repeated the post because it seemed you weren't getting it. And then you continued with the comparison here, in your last response:

Is this conversation really that hard for you to follow?

It's more valuable than saying you should avoid playing obvious fish because they're somehow rigged to win at all times, imo.

That sounds like something an obvious fish that's rigged to win all the time would say.

U want to bet $1,000 that I am not a losing player in hold em online? Yes we can escrow

Well, that is 3 prop bet offers, so my over 4.5 prop bet prediction for 2017 is looking good. Of course there can be no wagering on actual prop bets you do, because everyone knows that will always be 0. Anyway, how exactly would you plan to escrow? Still need to do it by postal mail to a buddy of yours?

Also, this latest rig theory of yours is essentially a "print money" rig, as you would not even know how to play poker to make a fortune with it, so it is interesting that you are using it as a reason why you are a "winning" player.

Literally a wooden bird that pecks the keyboard every 3 seconds could win with the latest rig of yours if a human chose the appropriate buyins for that bird for rigged winning and losing days. You said that you using this rig has helped you win, right? Just want to be sure of that... Sadly the bird probably would do better.

All the best.

Yes and I am saying I will match escrow for any amount that I can produce a hem2 graph showing I am a winning player at hold em . Let me know who wants in and where to escrow.

Yes. Let me know the details. I can see how I could send it. I don't have PayPal or anything like that and I haven't set up bit coin so I am not sure how we could do this. Let me know tho. Wire could work I guess although it would all be kind of dumb as it would be coming right back here in seconds after I post the graph.

Showing a fake graph of another player is not worth anything. You lie about everything, even silly rigs, so why do you think posting a fake graph will mean anything (in the unlikely event you know how to even post a graph).

Come on already, you basically said you needed an extreme rig (ie: you know what days you cannot lose) to help you win overall. You said you use it, as anyone should if it is real, but if it is real then you can win with the rig without being a winning player. Hell, you can win under that rig without even knowing that a jack is higher than a 7.

So which is it - are you a real "winning player" and you lied about the rig, or did you tell the truth about the rig and then you are lying about being a skilled, winning player since the rig is why you win. You are not a "winning" player in the pure sense of the word if you need a rig to get you those winnings...

You basically are saying that you only win because of the rig. Thus, according to you - you are not an actual winning player (without the rig). Good thing you never follow through on those prop bets you propose, but please do 2 more so I can win my over 4.5 prob bet wager!

All the best.

Well, my post was:

so I think it is pretty clear whether or not I was saying I wanted to bet that you are not a losing player in hold'em online.





Let's have Monteroy be the escrow agent. We'll send him the money tonight. Monteroy, are you ok being the escrow agent? If so, would you be able to provide wire instructions so that jungmit and I can escrow the funds for this bet to you?

Here are the details (you = jungmit; I = Lego05):

1. You have to play at least 500 hands tomorrow at tables with 4 or more total players.

2. If you win every hand, then you win the bet.

3. If you lose one hand or more or play fewer than 500 hands in accordance with #1, above, then I win the bet.

4. Notwithstanding the foregoing, any collusion by any of your opponents to help you to win one or more hands is a deemed loss of the bet for you.

5. You will arrange for the site you play on to send directly to me the hand history of every hand that you play tomorrow. If the site cannot do this, then let me know tonight and we will work out alternatives. What site do you plan to play on and what is your screen name?

6. This bet is for one million dollars.

To his minor defense, he forgot about his original prop bet and switched it to a "I am a winning player because I can show a random winning graph" prop bet, so you trying to pursue his first of several prop bets is lost on him, as he already forgot about that one. He gets confused easily.

I feel a bit bad for him, because he clearly says he needs a rig to win (without realizing that he says that in his doddering state). Despite that, I still hope he gets to 5 proposed prop bets quickly so I win my prop prop bet. I wired money to myself as escrow for that as well.

Are you really this bad at reading, or lame enough to carry on with a troll gimmick in this thread for all this time? Not sure which would be worse.

He quoted a post in his reply - perhaps the bet he wanted to make was the one you proposed in that post. Just taking a wild guess here.

Goodness knows I'd normally be the last one to come forward to help jungmit, but I think a few of you have misunderstood his claim. Here's what he said:

"So today I couldn't win a hand.....anyone want to take a wager that tomorrow I won't lose. Not only thst I will run hot as hell."

Now, given that he said he couldn't win a hand, I can see how one could take "tomorrow I won't lose" to mean he'll lose every hand, but I believe there's a much more reasonable interpretation. He means he won't lose tomorrow - he'll have a winning day. If he meant he would win every hand, adding "Not only thst I will run hot as hell" doesn't make any sense - winning every hand is already as hot as you can run. My take on it - "I couldn't win a hand" wasn't meant literally. He lost badly one day, and figures he'll win big the next. So a bet on him not winning big might fly, but no way he's taking a bet that he'll win every hand, and I don't think that's what he meant.

Either way, it's all good fun anyway, and we all know a bet won't happen regardless of what he actually meant.

Yeah, some are having a bit of fun at his sloppy language, but you were in the bonus whoring era like I was - his latest rig would put all of those cash machine days to shame, even if he does not have to win every hand. If you know what days you will "win" and what days you will "lose" then the only thing you need to worry about is how are you going to get off the hundreds of thousands of dollars you win every week .

Regarding whether this guy is a long term full troll or not. If he is then he wins the award for best troll ever, because he posted many threads and posts in forums that literally have zero troll posts. You and I both have head of "cover play" for those old casino bonus whoring days, but I have yet to see a troll create a character for years by posting in forums like the software or poker theory or beginners forums one to then setup his targets in a riggie thread years later! Still, if that is the case, he gets the "we're not worth" bows. Odds are, he is as he presents himself, which is outside of this silly thread his problem to handle.

He probably meant what you state, but just reading what he wrote literally, it is a reasonable interpretation that he is stating he will win every hand tomorrow. He talks about not being able to win a hand today and then not losing tomorrow while implying that the not losing tomorrow will be because of the not winning a hand today. And he has made ridiculous claims before.

Even if it isn't what he meant originally, we could still do the bet.

Here's the thing...for me it's not about "bad beats"....those are part of poker. It's people/entities making implausible plays in spots where there opponents cannot fold and hitting the nuts consistently. This isn't a "bad beat" this is something shady. I see it happen all the damn time...if it happened at a lower frequency I might even just chalk it up to random things, but when I observe it happen multiple times a day...it just doesn't seem right. I'd still feel much better if anyone could tell me they honestly know someone who has won the Ignition 100k on Sunday. I genuinely believe the site wins this tournament every week. I have won the nightly 20-40k guarantee a few times and I know someone who has won the 50k high roller.... I dunno something just doesn't seem right on this site, I don't think it's all rigged...but I certainly feel like some of it is. Just my opinion. And despite the game being tougher nowadays...the players on this site aren't at all so my win rate should not be lower on this site than it was on Stars and UB .... not a chance. I think my only problem with this thread is that all the "shills" and "riggies" alike speak like they "know" it is/isn't rigged, and quite frankly they can't possibly know that for sure. I'm somewhere in the middle, I think it's possible it is, even likely....and I believe that ignition poker is, but I acknowledge that it may in fact not be. The truth is nobody KNOWS except for the people running the site. You shills should be nicer and less assholish to the riggies who aren't just complaining about bad beats but have legit concerns(though maybe you've heard it so much you don't know how to process it any other way??). Also acknowledge that fact that you don't KNOW anything and start being more accepting of the other sides point of view.

And riggies... Online poker isn't rigged because you lost a sequence of 70-30 hands in a row or because you win when you deposit and lose after you withdraw. Take some time to think about what you're saying and really process it before posting it on here cause you're just gonna get ripped if its another bad beat post. Hell my post wasn't a bad beat post and I still caught some ****, though I will say the shills were for the most part respectful towards me and what I said even if they blatantly discarded it.

Much love guys...if anyone knows anyone who has won that tourney on ignition/bovada legit...let me know and I'll feel a lot better about things.

Your "legit" concern is that you see too many bad beats (with no hand history evidence), and choose to not call them bad beats for some reason. You are not the first riggie who tries to claim he is not a riggie, nor will you be the last, and really if someone told you they knew someone who won that specific tournament would that really change your mind? Someone may think the site is rigged in a tournament you won, because you made a play they think was bad. Maybe you are one of the site owners who wants to be sure nobody is catching on when you win a tournament. Sound silly? Welcome to riggie theories - prove it untrue...



Yeah, bad beat whiners are tiring. That is why they have a forum for it where most get trolled for their whining.

Can you give a specific example of an "implausible play." One would assume it is when an opponent plays a weak hand and gets lucky and sucks out a better hand of a better player (like yourself) who had too good a hand to fold. What do they call it when that happens? Hmm, a "Bad Schmeat?" A "Bad Pleat?" Something like that...

You think Ignition is rigged and Stars is not rigged. Other riggies thing Stars is rigged and they said the same silly "look who has won the tournament" statement to back their beliefs (often involving Russians who are in on it). You are a riggie, one who posts like many riggies before him. Just embrace your culture already, and be the best riggie you can be, but be warned - jungmit will be posting soon to be sure you do not get too much attention. I wonder why...

All the best.

Yeah let's follow your rules and make the rules so ******ed thst u will assume I won't take the bet then u can say that I bailed out again to make yourself feel better.

I was merely starting to flesh out the details for the bet that you proposed:






But that was part of the joke.

Yes I won't lose I said. It does not say I would play all day and win every single hand I played. And guess whst.....yesterday I did not lose.

Now on to the real wager. I beleive it was Kelvis who said I was a losing player. Let's make this bet and I will produce a graph from hem2

Define "consistently". How often should it happen? Surely you know that to know that it's happening too frequently, so share with the class. "I lose too often" isn't a legit concern, it's dumb whiner talk. Ah, but shills do KNOW many things. Statistics, for example. The other side is literally just shouting about random ****, like jungmit and his obsession with hands like top pair vs flush draws or top pair vs sets (can you tell the pattern of the dumb hands he stacks off with then gets pissy about from those two examples?) that they then go on to explicitly say they don't even know the expected frequency of (the same thing your very post I'm replying to is guilty of!) but know something's "off". Here you go. That's literally the first Google result for "bovada 100k" so I can tell you've put zero effort into uncovering anything on your own.

This is why riggies are mocked relentlessly, you're more willing to come on here and type up a wall o' text about things you think are off than you are to take 5 seconds to ****ing Google it.

No one's going to take a screenshot of a graph as proof for that bet, come on man.

Go to Duecescracked.com. Look thru the videos on the site for an Author named WiltonTilt. He has a 5 part series in which he records winning the Bovada Sunday $100k.

You can go watch a human player win that tournament.

Hope you feel better after watching that. I'm certain that you won't.

What I have noticed about online poker, is that my EV is constantly going up, but my bankroll is constantly going down. Hmmm?

It would seem that constantly making correct decisions in 9 man STT on pokerstars equates to a negative ROI - I'm not sure how this is possible without a form of cheating.

I also noticed (as others have noted) that immediately after signing up here i had a day or two of godlike winning. Almost as if my account was given the positive juice treatment. Just for long enough to keep my interested.

In all walks of life, where money is involved, bug business will do anything (including breaking the law/morality) to enhance their profits. Why would online poker be any different? The arguement that they make enough money from the rake is not vaid IMO. Why not seed a few house bots into every tournament and pick up a large percentage of the prze pool as well?

The arguement that rigging the numbers is impossible is also a falacy. It is quite possible to maintain an statistical average whilst penalising players at certain points. For instance, you can win AA Vs JJ at 10.20 BB's and double up for a + 150BB EV, but guess what? This allows the mathematics to screw you (purposfully) 10 times when the pot is 15BB's. AND STILL THE NUMBERS WILL LOOK CORRECT.

AIEV is a practically useless tool that more often than not is used incorrectly. You can make the wrong play every single time but still have a positive expectation just because you're very rarely drawing completely dead for example. As I said, because +EV doesn't always mean "correct". Because creating and running successful bots is hard, whereas collecting rake takes almost zero effort. Even if they decided to take a large percentage of the prize pool, we're talking about peanuts compared to just the rake from that tournament in most cases. In other words, they're already winning more than first prize money in every tournament, and if they really wanted to win more they'd just increase the rake. Oh boy, I look forward to your explanation! Wait, what? How does winning 10 BBs equal +150 EV? So to clarify, your theory that it's possible to rig hands without it showing up in statistics is that you just have to rig 11 hands, all the while keeping track of which players are involved in which hands, and keeping track of how much EV you robbed someone of to make sure it all balances out? And somehow no one will ever notice that they're losing an insanely disproportionate amount of hands because they're for small pots or something?

Just because something is averaged out over time somehow, does not mean it "will look correct". An average is a very primitive and superficial indicator of the results. It's not hard to look much deeper.

I had KQ suited, clubs.

Villian has 44 off suite

Flop comes out 6-3-2

Turn 2

River 4

At this moment I hit my flush, I go all in, he goes all in.

His cards show, he has a Full house

I call BS, that he hit a 4 on the river like that. You're telling me the RNG shoots a 4? I mean this could have been legit, but I highly doubt it. Seemed rigged for Action like crazy.

So you're saying he knew the 4 was coming?

As far as the RNG, this wasn't even that much of a long shot. That part is just lol, of course one of the two 4s will sometimes come on the river.

The new site I am playing on just seems iffy. Everytime I have a straight or higher, I am always playing against one guy who slams something better than me at the end. Seems like my opponent always wins at the river.

I also have to think, I doubt a poker site would want to push people away.

So really I have no clue, like I said, I am just trying a new site.