So this was a Roman Catholic Jewis priest, was it?

You are crazy. Not for wanting hard evidence but for not understanding the limits of evidence that can be obtained and for having idiotic notions that some completely unworkable technique (third part inspection) will do things that it hasn't a hope in hell of doing.

Actually, you do a superb job of that all by yourself.

I don't need to marginalise you. You have marginalised yourwelf by being a complete moron.

The poker sites haven't fed me anything.

I have formed an opinion on the basis of the lack of any credible evidence that they are rigging the game. When one site did rig the game it was found out pretty damn quickly.

That doesn't stop you being an idiot.

Being agnostic about a diety that created the universe is one thing. Being agnostic about furrry, invisible, pink dragons living at the end of your garden is another.

Guess which catagory you fall into?

There is evidence available that is as hard as it's going to get.

You've got it.

And do you believe that PS actually, definitely, gave the company that did the analysis the exact hands that were used?

If you do, case closed, you can go away happy.

If you don't you are a true rigtard.

You mean the one that actually wants a tiny shred of evidence that there even is some wrongdoing before believing that someone is guilty of it?

Yes, very right wing and conservative.

The sad thing is that you actually believe that your idiotic non evidentially supported paranoia is logical and central.

Why don't you get some lessons from her?

In other words, what's the difference.

Might just as well not bother.

I'm with the "rigged" crowd.

And I'm kind of almost 100% sure that there's select times where the "Action Flops" button is hit. Even though it's turned on only for a few minutes at a time, if you're one of the sorry SOB's caught in a hand during this time, it is devastating to your confidence..

..now, if I can just figure out when it is that the button gets pushed..

That's not true. Just like in financial services a good auditor would spot discrepancies, a good code auditor could spot some kind of cover up. If I knew that every programmer had access to the base source code, and I saw that code, I'd be content that there isn't some massive conspiracy among all of them.

Like I said, the only way I think something like that could be pulled off, is if the *shuffled deck* object is created and maintained by a very small group of programmers, and to all the other programmers this object functions as something of a black box. IE - it just spits out cards when requested of it. If that were the case, and I was auditing the code, I would want to do a lot more digging into the source code for the shuffled deck, see some live builds of the code in action, randomly access a few servers poking around for alternate code, etc.


My concern on that would be that any card discrepancies that would show up from favoring the kind of players I described (new, Euro, been gone for a while, etc.) might be so slight - that I don't think we could guarantee they would be statistically significant. It's very hard to say how much more often those people would need to suckout, which would lead to I guess slightly higher chances of aces (which would also be canceled out by the lower chance of aces we expect to observe - but by how much?), or lower cards maybe? And if the bias is also slanted against good players not sucking out as much, maybe the cards still end up distributing evenly. This I think is a very interesting problem. And it could very well be after working on the problem a while, one could come up with a convincing thesis that given the kind of rigging I described you would see some anomolies. But I don't think you can just wave your hands and say that any kind of rigging would definitely show up in a giant card distribution.

Also, again just for the sake of argument, lets say there's some threshold for the rigging to occur - like showdowns of more than 1/2 buyin in equity. IF the software was smart enough to rig in these spots, it wouldn't be much tougher for it to keep track of the two cards involved in the rigging (the one that should have been dealt and the one that was) and then just swap those two cards later in some meaningless spot (IE if the "rig" card comes up in a meaningless spot, use the "replaced" card instead). I'm pretty sure that would nullify any anomalies that would show up in a card distribution. Maybe a card distribution of only high equity showdowns would be more useful. Has anyone done one of those?


Again, to be clear I don't think there's very much realistic chance of any of this being true. I just would like to *know* that it isn't, at least to the same degree of certainty that I know bank transaction software isn't screwing me (it's been tested, audited, ISO certified, Sarbanes-Oxley compliant, etc).

Oh yeah, I know Josem IRL and trust him. If he tells me he asked around and the shuffled deck object isn't a black box, that's good enough for me. Just don't ask the old timey guy, ask a new guy.

QPW, bro, honestly - who the hell are you???

you talk to people like they are below you. you respond to every and each post with insults and half-assed answers that dont even BEGIN to actually answer or help anything. do yourself a favor and just stay out of the big-boy conversation

I'm your worst nightmare.

The one you haven't even had yet and cannot begin to imagine.

Only those who self evidently are (in the subject under discussion).

If someone comes on here and spouts idiocy I simply mention the fact.

You see there's the problem with you idiot rigtards right there.

You post outright lies that even the most mentally feeble could spot a mile off.

You mean answers that you find inconvenient because they show anyone who isn't a complete moron (which lets you out, BTW) that the probability of any rigging going on is minimal.

Keep banging the rocks together.

LMFAO THE LIMITS OF EVIDENCE?????????? If the evidence is limited (speaking of... WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?) then how can you be so sure it's not rigged, buddy?

QPW, you honestly make me laugh while I read your responses. Half of it makes no sense, repeats what someone else has said before you, or is filled with constant insults. Why are you here??

QPW posts: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/se...archid=8605638

hahaha, find a girl man.

If you think OLP is rigged, why do you play and why are you here? masochist?

This post is ironic in so many ways.

PS. Just a tip: links to searches you did don't work. One day maybe you'll get the hang of this forum thing.

It's called 'logical inference'.

Don't bother - you'll only give yourself a headache.

I think you mean you giggle nervously like a little girl.

Makes no sense to you, maybe.

Tell you what, perhaps I'll try and use monosylabic (look it up) words and very short sentences to make it easy for you.

qpw has a forum ego, how cute

Re: Rounding4Rent.

Just too dumb to know when to bail out.

I suspect that if he hit his head against a brick wall (assuming he felt it) he would continue to do so all the while complaining to anyone that would listen that the wall was rigged against him and demanding that walls be regulated by the US government.

I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk

Hey atleast you have a sense of humor! Why not get off the keyboard and use it in the real world??

lol... seriously i don't get it just stop playing that way they can avoid the house bots, shills, new player bonus, cashout curse, action induced flops, timing, golden accounts...

Yes but the banks are under a lot more scrutiny at the moment so something might be done.

Or were you talking about medical insurance and hospital scams?

As far as on line poker goes, at least the people of Europe and Asia are under the protection of the Lizard People so have nothing to fear.

now that I actually read what he wrote - I don't either.

Scratch that. Just stay inside..

Well, apparantly he's here because his 'fellow americans' (whom he does not have the courtesy to capitalize) are being ripped of on a 'LARGE' scale.

Note the big letters for 'large' which means it must be serious.

All the evidence points to the deal not being rigged. You're on a baseless crusade.


Oh, that's swell. Making fun of someone for posting on an internet message board...via a post on an internet message board. You're a class act!

No, dear boy.

He just doesn't get why someone who believes they are being ripped of by OLP (that's you, that is) doesn't just go and do something else.

He probably hasn't encountered the lower level of moron yet.

So im being ripped off? How? proof? What do you suggest i do about it?

I understood what he wrote. What i dont understand is why someone who thinks he's being ripped off by a company would continue to use that company.

Only Americans? Or you just don't care about the anyone who isn't American?

Maybe he thinks the rigging is geo-targeted.

He just doesn't know the meaning of the word 'irony'.

He probably thinks it indicates a metalic nature.

That's a common theme. Riggedologists don't think about the players who are in highly regulated countries (yes, poker sites are regulated in many countries), or even living in the jurisdiction of the site, getting the exact same game and in fact sitting at the same table with Americans. Somehow the site just cheats the Americans since they can get away with it. I suppose if you live in the UK you always win against Americans. Pretty sweet deal for the brits.