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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

12-21-2011 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
It would be incredibly difficult to program the dealing system to do that.

Why?

Because there are so many metrics upon which it can be measured.

If you wanted to even up one metric, in most cases you would have to be aware of every other possible metric and ensure that your tampering did not skew any of them.

I think this might be theoretically possible (unlike tampering with the deal to favour one or a group of players without the possibility of detection), but it would be far too risky to attempt in the real world.
risky like money laundering or bank fraud? So if those risks are taken against the United States and there laws what risks would be taken in lands with no laws and regulations, only us players with unsophisticated basic detection systems. How hard would it be for a site to make an alteration to be undetectable against the generic and standard tracking systems we have availible to us that NEVER change at all. Not hard I would suspect. I mean pokersites have to continually * evolve* and combat hackers and bots right? But something like altering a rng so its pattenrs could not be detected by the same detection system we as players have never evolves or never changes. It would be easy one would think. Could of been done years ago. We just use basic tracking tools provided by us by other sources. They check for the same patterns.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
If you dont understand why this is necessary then you are just not smart enough but i will tell you. The reason is control and protection against manipulation. Did you get it now? Or is this too difficult to understand now too?
Its not about bureaucracy its more about law and order. Why people should give a company the control about a software of a game where it is played for millions of dollars? You think money is something you can allow companies like Pokerstars to do with it what they want?
What are your theories about Facebook and Microsoft? How about the food industry (pretty much controlled by a few large global food production businesses)

You must think all industries and businesses everywhere are out to get you , correct?

After all, it's all about control.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Disciplined players do not whine all the time like you do.
Well, I have to whine because the discipline doesn't pay off, due to the rigged system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Good luck with this very simplistic and deeply flawed approach if you ever get above the penny games.
I play up to 0,25/0,50 on different site where the cards are actually random, because I can accept eventual losses if they come randomly. Or to get outplayed with fair system.

In english this means to your peanut brain that playing 5 9 and hitting 2 5's on turn and river doesn't mean outplayed like on Pokerstars.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Well, I have to whine because the discipline doesn't pay off, due to the rigged system.
FYP AGAIN

Spoiler:
Well, I have to whine , BECAUSE I AM A **** POKER PLAYER
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
what risks would be taken in lands with no laws and regulations
Just for starters, please name a country with no laws and regulations.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
Well, I have to whine because the discipline doesn't pay off, due to the rigged system.
Then drop the attempt to be disciplined and embrace your new career as a whiner. You have that skill set, so use it. Post a lot of your bad beats in the Bad Beat forum as well, they will respect them.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...rags-variance/

is the forum.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
I play up to 0,25/0,50 on different site where the cards are actually random, because I can accept eventual losses if they come randomly. Or to get outplayed with fair system.

In english this means to your peanut brain that playing 5 9 and hitting 2 5's on turn and river doesn't mean outplayed like on Pokerstars.
Withdraw your 14 cent bankroll and uninstall Pokerstars then if you cannot win there, or learn to fold on the flop against 9 high when they are destined to get runner runner trips. That is what a disciplined player would do, if he understood how the rig worked.

Go play on that other site you think is fair, and then when you start losing (which based on your posts is your destiny) you can start whining that that site is rigged as well. Perhaps an employee from Pokerstars followed you there to rig that site as well, or create your own theory.

You have no future as a poker player, but you have a promising one as a whiner and a riggie, so get to work.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
What are your theories about Facebook and Microsoft? How about the food industry (pretty much controlled by a few large global food production businesses)

You must think all industries and businesses everywhere are out to get you , correct?

After all, it's all about control.

All the best.
and you must think all companies and industries that fraud banks and money launder against goverment insitutions would stop there and be fair against normal everyday people with only themselves to answer to and they 3 muskateers who audited them 9 years ago. Yes Guy!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
and you must think all companies and industries that fraud banks and money launder against goverment insitutions would stop there and be fair against normal everyday people with only themselves to answer to and they 3 muskateers who audited them 9 years ago. Yes Guy!
Still waiting for your answer to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
what risks would be taken in lands with no laws and regulations
Just for starters, please name a country with no laws and regulations.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
Now I don't know the first thing about source code and I don't claim to know much about progamming or anything to do with the RNG and how it works scientifically but what I do know is the rng is meant to deal specific %'s down to percise numbers of pocket pairs, flush draws ect ect ect. Now one would assume that the computer is constantly course correcting itself so if a certain player is getting random dealings and there holding % for say aa is too high or there suckout % is too low than the computer will even this out to make it fair. Now does it recognize the amount players play and take this in to consideration? Is that really fair and random when over 10k hands I am getting dealt more flushes than normal and the program needs to even it out over the next x amount of hands. Is that fair and random? So how about when a player is mouthy or a player is a professional and a site promoter. Is it than unplausable to assume that certain players and there * evening out* the odds dealings are dealt more favourably on certain games than others? Is this why certain people are suddenly and magically run bad on the bubble of tournments or anytime the try and move up in stakes. This is * undetectable* looking at the big picture. This wouldn't be detectable in holdem manager but could be done right? I mean when mr Ayre is stating the software has become sophisticated to be able to classify players in to groups than what else is it able to do and deploy to us already. Who knows but its safe to say something has been going on of why certain players just always have such bad luck and others who feed the site rakes just keep getting lucky and maintaining a big roll forever feeding the sites. I know for a fact I was told that the program will course correct if someone is not dealt enough flushes or flush draws, it should be in a certain specific % say for arguments sake they are dealt a flush draw 14.8% and hit 22% of those over 10k hands. Well this is running hot and that 22% needs to be lowered. Well if this computer program knows I sometimes but rarely play higher staked games and usually play lower 20$ or lower stakes than it could be conceivable that I will always even out below ev on certain games while other * luckbox* players will usually always even out positively on more favourable games. This would always even out over time and show no * rig* yet there obviously is a tainted outcome.
bmp
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Then drop the attempt to be disciplined and embrace your new career as a whiner. You have that skill set, so use it. Post a lot of your bad beats in the Bad Beat forum as well, they will respect them.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...rags-variance/

is the forum.






Withdraw your 14 cent bankroll and uninstall Pokerstars then if you cannot win there, or learn to fold on the flop against 9 high when they are destined to get runner runner trips. That is what a disciplined player would do, if he understood how the rig worked.

Go play on that other site you think is fair, and then when you start losing (which based on your posts is your destiny) you can start whining that that site is rigged as well. Perhaps an employee from Pokerstars followed you there to rig that site as well, or create your own theory.

You have no future as a poker player, but you have a promising one as a whiner and a riggie, so get to work.

All the best.
As you seem to be such excellent player, why don't post your graph so I can see that mine is going 5x steeper upwards?

Don't worry I wont be complaining long, someone wanted a hand history so I gave it.

I'll deposit from stars after this years bonus, and no, there is no way to actually lose money on the other site. My biggest loss is around 6 buy ins on one day total.

Stars manages the same thing, times three, per SESSION. Just to sponsor money to the VPIP fish who likes to throw money around them.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
bmp
I don't know why you're bumping that, it's been answered already.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 09:43 AM
It's unfortunate pokerstars has 100x better promotions than any other site, and the bonus makes you want to play there.

They almost had me on the hook, but I can't beat their system.

Good luck to everyone else, don't play any bigger than 0,01/0,02, or you will lose your fortune.

Going back to my 22,5BB/100 site soon! Ohhhh the randomness .... not seen it for a long time.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
What are your theories about Facebook and Microsoft? How about the food industry (pretty much controlled by a few large global food production businesses)

You must think all industries and businesses everywhere are out to get you , correct?

After all, it's all about control.

All the best.
Waht kind of post is this? To steal peoples money is not enough now even putting people to the paranoid corner?
Some things should be controlled other things not. We are talking about a game where people play for real money so people have to trust this software. Its about that. Why you compare things which you cant compare with?
I dont create something i experienced it. I know my hands i played. They are clear. If you want a factual discussion then you have to be factual. Why some people attack others here just cause they dont like their opinion. You can say i see it different why always getting personal. People here can read my posts and then they will read your post. What you think they will think?
You think people are that stupid that you can change the content of my posts with making fun of it? You know Pokerstars thinks same way too they think make big advertising in television get some known poker players and we will always get away with it like in the past. We made so much profit like this why should we change a winning system like this. People will collect hand histories and they will check even more in future and not everything will be swept under the curtain. Things change and times change.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
It's unfortunate pokerstars has 100x better promotions than any other site, and the bonus makes you want to play there.

They almost had me on the hook, but I can't beat their system.

Good luck to everyone else, don't play any bigger than 0,01/0,02, or you will lose your fortune.

Going back to my 22,5BB/100 site soon! Ohhhh the randomness .... not seen it for a long time.
So what is this magical site? zynga poker on facebook? are you a play chip millionaire that we should all be jealous of? Post your name and stats if you are as good as you say.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
It's unfortunate pokerstars has 100x better promotions than any other site, and the bonus makes you want to play there.

They almost had me on the hook, but I can't beat their system.

Good luck to everyone else, don't play any bigger than 0,01/0,02, or you will lose your fortune.

Going back to my 22,5BB/100 site soon! Ohhhh the randomness .... not seen it for a long time.
I think what you are asking is:

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Waht kind of post is this?
[ ] Brag post
[ ] Beat post
[X] Post in response to paranoid rigtard.
[ ] Poker strategy post
[ ] Staking post
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
You have no future as a poker player, but you have a promising one as a whiner and a riggie, so get to work.
We all can't be as great as you.

Quote:
As you seem to be such excellent player, why don't post your graph so I can see that mine is going 5x steeper upwards?
This should be good.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
And again, EXCELLENT!
SO......why waste your time trying to have a discussion with these POS?
Their obvious financial ties to the OLP scam prevents them from saying anything other then what they say over and over again.
If you want a real discussion with real players, this is NOT the site for it.
As i know its the biggest poker forum maybe its not as independent as it should be. But i really think poker forums can do something for the game. Even rigged Poker sites will be influenced by this discussions maybe. Such sites will learn better when they start to lose players at least then it will have an effect.

I didnt write my posts to say here ohh i lost money damn. I wrote my posts for the people who see Isildur1 and Tom Dwan playing and dreaming they can grind their way up somehow to highstakes. I dont like to see poker players used by a site like Pokerstars. Poker players dont deserve that. This site destroys poker.
You cant win this no matter what you do. You can register at poker schools pokerstrategy sites or paid sites like deuces cracked its useless no matter what. What i wanted to say is:

You cant win if they dont allow you to win.

If this message got clear i am okay with it. Some people write here crazy things cause they are frustrated that they have lost so much but nobody forces to you to play at Pokerstars. So if you think it is rigged and i am sure they cheat many players then just dont play there. Its really unacceptable that some people put threats out there. A mod should delete such posts.

To the subject i am for liberal gambling laws and for certain kind of state regulation at the same time. Control the software,get taxes and let the poker sites make profit and at the same time let the people play clean poker. That would be the best for all parties.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
[ ] Brag post
[ ] Beat post
[X] Post in response to paranoid rigtard.
[ ] Poker strategy post
[ ] Staking post
Why insulting people? Someone who thinks he is right dont need to to insult others. You can think like you want. But let others their own opinion. If i would let you watch when i play at Pokerstars you would agree with my opinion. But i am not interested to throw some more thousands of dollars through the window for nothing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:37 AM
Hey Truth, didn't see you reply to this post. You may have missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Let's pretend that pokerstars and full tilt are on trial for rigging (I know, you just jizzed yourself didn't you?). The prosecutor, for some bizarre reason, comes to you and asks for the BEST evidence available in this thread that the sites are rigged, to help him win the case. What do you show him?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Hey Truth, didn't see you reply to this post. You may have missed it:
I would show him my graph where i am thousands of big blinds under my ev line. I would show him every hand i had better odds preflop and on flop and lost. I would show him the quality of hands dealt to me a hour and the hands dealt to certain players on the table a hour. I would show him how some players call your preflop raise and call your flop bet and turn bet until they get a straight on river against my AA i was holding for example.
I would show him how i lost against a player who did go allin with every hand against me heads up even with hands like 72 38 or 210 with everything and still won more than 56%percent of the games we made even i had except two hands better odds most time favourite like 65-82%.
I would show him how i lost 12 out of 15 coinflips against another opponent. I would show him how bigstacks in tournaments raise with every hand cause they know they will hit something even the small stack has the better starting hand showing him how often bigstacks hit with their hands.
All this i would show him.
And then he has to go to a math professor and check the statistics. And then the math professor will give the answer. I said many time here if you want a proof then mathematics is the way to prove.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
It's incredible the 60%+ VPIP players keep getting these extreme cards, if you ask me it's because pokerstars like to reward players who dumps in a lot of cash, and want them to win a big bunch of money in short time and after that they logically share the money to other players after because of their bad play.
Yeah, it's definitely that, and not the fact that bad players play poker specifically because they occasionally win with their terrible garbage hands and that keeps them playing, and more importantly, keeps them playing terrible garbage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
In theory that would be correct, but 10% at stars, happends 6/10 times instead of 1/10 of times.
Bull****. If 10% hands were winning 60% of the time, any ****** could see it plain as day with any tracking program. When you just make up numbers, it makes you look like an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
I am a very strict disciplined player, which means I put my money to the pot when I know I'm a clear winner.
So disciplined you choose to limp 95s OOP?
Quote:
And this of course comes down to this: like I said. High VPIP players will fuuck you over on the odds, because stars want them to win 1-4 big pots. Then let them lose and deal back the money to the regulars, which are then happy.
Again, this is a part of poker. It's not as if live fish are just getting destroyed as soon as they sit down at the table. You can go to basically any live $1/2 table and find a guy with a 5 buyin stack who plays any two cards and gets his money in behind all night, but keeps sucking out to win. If it happens online, though, "zomg rigged!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojello
This wouldn't be detectable in holdem manager but could be done right?
It would be detectable. If you tweak people's hands so it looks like their personal hands are normal, it means you'll have other people they played with seeing them run like electrical Jesus or like the most doomswitched person on Earth. It's impossible to tweak just one person's numbers when they have to play with 1, 5, 8, or 9 other people at all times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
If you lose with better odds against bad hands of the other player and this losses come in a row then something is not okay.
If that happened, you could prove it.
Quote:
Try to keep factual i doubt you are interested to be factual though.
fac·tu·al
adj
\ˈfak-chə-wəl, -chəl, -chü-əl, ˈfaksh-wəl\
Definition of FACTUAL
1
: of or relating to facts <a factual error>
2
: restricted to or based on fact <a factual statement>

When have you been factual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
If you dont understand why this is necessary then you are just not smart enough but i will tell you.
What happened to "don't insult people", champ?
Quote:
Then these guys can will know other side of the variance. The variance of how much years they have to spend in jail.
Aww, look at our little Batman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I dont create something i experienced it. I know my hands i played.
That's nice, but we don't, Brainiac.
Quote:
They are clear.
Then post them. Why do you insist on covering for the people you say deserve to go to jail?
Quote:
If you want a factual discussion then you have to be factual.
Once again, factual doesn't mean what you think it means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
You cant win this no matter what you do. You can register at poker schools pokerstrategy sites or paid sites like deuces cracked its useless no matter what.
So people who manage to win on other sites, along with Pokerstars, are just the luckiest people alive, and skill has no part in it?
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
As you seem to be such excellent player, why don't post your graph so I can see that mine is going 5x steeper upwards?
This the latest trend with riggies, ask me for my user name (which I have said probably a hundred times) with the implication that they will then say theirs to show who is better.

The last one vanished without saying his user name, will you do the same now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
Don't worry I wont be complaining long, someone wanted a hand history so I gave it.
Can you post a hand of 94o winning?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
I'll deposit from stars after this years bonus, and no, there is no way to actually lose money on the other site. My biggest loss is around 6 buy ins on one day total.
Then play at the other site given your biggest loss is around a couple bucks there in one day.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
Stars manages the same thing, times three, per SESSION. Just to sponsor money to the VPIP fish who likes to throw money around them.
You said the regs get the money from the fish who get the money from the regs who get the money from the fish. Either that or the reverse.

As a donk, perhaps you just lose because you are a donk. Granted a huge conspiracy against specifically you to rob you of some spare change might seem a more realistic scenario for you, but "you simply suck at poker" is the one the rest of the world sees. Your opponents probably appreciate you every day for that reason.

Keep up the good work on the new career as a whiner/riggie, you are developing those skills quickly. Also, uninstall Pokerstars already and never play there again.

All the best.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Hey Truth, didn't see you reply to this post. You may have missed it:
One more thing. I have no intention to make certain poker sites bad. I just want a clean game for all poker players thats all.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
12-21-2011 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I would show him my graph where i am thousands of big blinds under my ev line. I would show him every hand i had better odds preflop and on flop and lost. I would show him the quality of hands dealt to me a hour and the hands dealt to certain players on the table a hour. I would show him how some players call your preflop raise and call your flop bet and turn bet until they get a straight on river against my AA i was holding for example.
I would show him how i lost against a player who did go allin with every hand against me heads up even with hands like 72 38 or 210 with everything and still won more than 56%percent of the games we made even i had except two hands better odds most time favourite like 65-82%.
I would show him how i lost 12 out of 15 coinflips against another opponent. I would show him how bigstacks in tournaments raise with every hand cause they know they will hit something even the small stack has the better starting hand showing him how often bigstacks hit with their hands.
All this i would show him.
And then he has to go to a math professor and check the statistics. And then the math professor will give the answer. I said many time here if you want a proof then mathematics is the way to prove.
That's fine for stuff you haven't posted and admit to not haven't done an actual analysis on, but your comment was the evidence was already in this thread, or out there. I wanted to know what you were talking about.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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