Yeah, you will make it up. You lie about everything. You already agreed with my assessment on that earlier.

Anyway, you will lie about tomorrow as well, just like you lied about everything else in the past. It is what you do. Feel free to offer a prop bet that you will not carry out (need you to do one more lie prop bet this year to win my bet).

All the best.

.

You claim to be a winning player, so on any given day you should be better than 50% to win. Don't think you're going to get a lot of interest in what I'm sure would be a big hassle just to bet on what amounts to almost a coin flip.

No, you won't. Well, maybe you'll start, but you'll be done if you do.

No, I doubt you made it up. You don't appear to be all that bright, so you probably think we'd allow this in spite of what I already told you, but we won't.

Without any context, no, of course no one has "an answer to this". It's silly enough to ask posters to answer for what someone else told you; it's even sillier to ask when we have no idea what the conversation was.

My best guess would be that the more people that are playing, the more hands that will be dealt, and therefore the more that everything, long shots included, will happen.

But already I'm regretting my answer ahead of time, because next you're going to tell me that no, that's not what you asked him, and then I won't know if you asked your question poorly, or if he didn't understand you, or if he understood exactly what you meant. So yeah, this is only going to lead to a silly conversation. But I guess this is just the thread for it.

Jungmit, get in touch with HBO. You should write some plots for Game of Thrones season 8, cause season 7 has already been done. You have some interesting ideas mate.

Some suggestions:
The Rains of Castamere could be The Rigs of Castamere

What is dead may never die - What is rigged may never die

A Lannister always pays his debts - A poker site always rigs its games.

I'm sure you will come up with better.

Sounds interesting but I never saw the show.

https://youtu.be/HlN0gBwTp-4?t=3s

You should watch it. It's a better way to spend your time, attention and thoughts. Also, you'll save some money because if you spend time trying to convince people that OLP is rigged, I'm safely assuming you are a losing player.



Take my example for an intstance. I am by no means great at math, I'm not lousy either. I'm decent. By this, I mean that I wouldn't be able to do a thorough statistics study to show how many times flush draws will get there/ miss, how many times will gutshots get there/miss etc. I can't do that. But in this forum I saw that there are some people that are very good at these things. And they concluded after doing research/studies that the sites are in order when it comes to shuffling and distribution. I for one, take their word for it. Why ? Because in all of the years that OLP has been around I have not seen one single dude that is good at maths/statistics coming forward and presenting an analysis that the deal at the top poker sites is skewed or rigged. Now, in my simple logic I conclude two possibilites from this :

1. The people that are capable of doing such a study are all into a conspiracy to hide the riggedness of OLP. This is the cuckoo's land possibility. Very unlikely.

2. There isn't anything wrong with the deal and distribution of the cards and the reasons why so many people think there is are that they suck at math/odds and they think they know how many times is normal for quads/flushes/straights/set over set scenarios etc. should occur, when in fact they don't. Or, they are bad losers and instead of accepting the fact that they suck at poker, they blame it on external factors.


I, for one believe in the second possibility.


Oh, getting back to Got. Here's a sample from the show. Pretty awesome, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Uq8O5ZhUA

Spoiler alert for the fans of the show who are not up to date.

Good points
1. I can show u my hem2 graph that proves I am not a losing player
2. I also believe people hit flush draws as much as they should
3. I will .out likely never watch the show. I don't watch much tv at all, but thank you for the recommendation.
4. People who are good at math may also think sites are rigged. But they are busy playing and they know thst even if a site is rigged they can still be a winner and thst is all they care about. How many people u think are gonna bother to do an in depth study of millions of hands to try to find some small point thst may not add up right? I am not taking about flushes or str8s hitting. I am talking about any small rig thst could change things. Most people just don't care enough.....like me. I have no desire to do this. If some part of the deal is rigged then I guess so be it. I will voice my opinion but I am not going to try to analyse millions of hands to see if I can find it.

1. Good for you. Then why not exploit the rig and make gazilions? Looking forward to seeing you in the top spot of the highstakes DB in no time.

2. Then what rig are you referring to ? What is the type of rig that you see?

3. Too bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCGt4Za16A

4. http://www.spadebidder.com/flop-analysis/part1/
This guy did the work. Analyzed hundreds of millions of hands. This is about the fourth time that I post this study. Any type of rig : action flops, superaccounts, flush draws missing too often, straight draws hitting too often etc. ( you get the point ) would have come up here. This guy concluded basically that there is no rig and also some interesting facts. Read it.

Also, I think your assumption is wrong. You are basically saying: everyone who is good at maths is good at poker, OLP for that fact. I think that you will find people who play OLP, who are very good at maths and who are losing players. What would be their incentive of hiding the rig ? As I've previously said, why hasn't anyone discovered something wrong when it comes to the distribution of the cards. And again, why would sites do this ? I mean let's look at Pokerstars ( that's where I play, not a winning player like you, I think because I have not discovered the rig yet ). And not only at PS, but at the other top sites. Why would they take the risk of skewing their deal ? Considering the fact that of their player pool there must certainly be people who use trackers and HH's and could easily divulge the rigs to the public if there were any.

You do realize that there is no such thing as the perfect fraud, right ? If the top sites would do something sketchy regarding the distribution of the cards ( which is the core of the fairness of the game, basically their bread and butter ), sooner or later, either by insider leaks or by somebody discovering them out, the rig will get out. What would that mean for them ? Total collapse, jail sentences, bankruptcy.

Why would a worldwide spread pokersite risk it's whole business for some crunches ? They make an insane amount of money by providing a fair deal. Why risk that for crumbs ? It's insane. Unless they are Aerys Targaryen ( GoT joke ), I wouldn't see them doing that. And if they did, they will sooner or later be discovered.

Now, as a final note, I kindly ask you to say what is the rig that you see or believe is going on? I am curious to find out, honestly. Maybe you are on to something. I'm pretty sure that the guys that are posting in this forum will help you find out if there is truth to your claims.

So again for everyone here. I do exploit the rig. Yes I take as much advantage of it as I can.
U do realise that they don't need to commit fraud right ?
1. Who is gonna do anything to them?
2. Who is even checking them?

Pokerstars deals billions of hands. Do u realise thst even if something is off by 1% it's huge???? And no study is ever gonna question 1%. 1% of billions is a pretty big number.
Did full tilt make enough insane amount of money ? Why risk doing anything stupid? See the point? No one who makes 10 million a year isn't trying to make 20 million? Why do athletes who are already multi millionaires take performance drugs? Why are their white collar criminals in jail thst are worth billion, but they are in jail for insider trading? It's greed. Common sense loses almost everytime to greed.
The guys here don't help. All they do is criticise. The only thing I ever beleive sites did was deal cards in streaks that would even out the games more then u would see live. There is almost no way to prove this. U would have to see everyone hole cards on every table and all played out hands, not just flop analysis.

You seem to ignore my question. What is the rig that you apparently see?

You just ranted some vague stuff.

Regarding Full Tilt, you do know there was nothing wrong with their distribution of the cards, right? They had financial/funds problems, but no problems regarding the shuffle or the distribution.

Yes, athletes take performance drugs, also athletes who take performance drugs get caught and they get fines and bans, sometimes pretty huge bans that doesn't really permit them to reach the top again. I am going to give you an example from my country. Everyone who enjoins football/soccer must've heard of Gheorghe Hagi. He was the leader of Romanian's golden generation national football team. Astounding player. When he retired we never thought we will see his like again. Until 2003, when a young star named Adrian Mutu rose onto the stage and ultimately got a transfer to Chelsea Fc ( England ). Huge potential, awesome athlete and talent. What did he do ? Take cocaine, got caught, banned for 6 months - 1 year from football, fined a huge load of money, Chelsea sued his ass and even today, Chelsea is still claiming 17M $ in compensation from him. He is still running from that. The ban ended, he got back on track, never really reached his potential, although he did turn up a decent player, only to **** up again in 2011 and get banned and fined again for doping.

Moral of the above, people that do shady stuff, get caught eventually.

Who is checking them ? Well, the 3rd parties that certify them and believe me, the regulations and monitoring in the gambling area is thorough. You mess up, you pay. And more importantly in my opinion, the players.

Dude, do you realize the implausible stuff you are saying ? First of all, you basically contradict yourself. You say 1% of billions is huge. Agreed. And if it is so huge, why wouldn't it appear in the HH's ? You are basically stating they rig only 1% of 1 billion. That would mean 10 million hands skewed. How do they choose the hands to rig ? In favor of who ? And that would still change the results in a statistics study. You are just joggling with some theories that they only rig a small part of the game, but you do not state what part of the game and on the top of that you say that you take advantage of the rig and you win a lot of money. Yet, if by your statement they only rig 1% of the hands, considering the huge amount of online players, in order for you to take advantage of the alleged rig/rigs you know of, and we the rest of the world who are so stupid and ignorant cannot observe it, you will need to be one lucky dude to catch a decent amount of the rigged 1% hands.

Also, in regards to the guys here who only criticize. I just gave you a guy who for 0$, did a freakin' study that basically proves distribution is random. If you search the forum you will see that some guys here actually helped on uncovering the Absolute Poker Scandal. And even that was not rigged. It was a superuser account ( PotRipper).

Everybody mocks and criticize you because you make some riggedness claims ( pretty absurd IMO ) and you do not offer any piece of evidence. You don't even offer a motive on which you believe the site to be rigged. You just .... know.

Again, I am kindly asking you to offer an example of your alleged riggedness. If you cannot, at least refrain yourself from making stupid and false accusations.

U find me 1 3rd party thst is checking any site.bi have looked for years. U can ask sites who audits them. They will give u a name, u contact thst company and they have no idea what u are talking about. Been thru it with gaming associates and itech labs. They have no idea about any audits.
I didn't say full tilt had shuffle problems, my example was u said no site would do anything stupid cuz they make insane amounts of money. Well full tilt did something stupid.

I am a grown ass man........I don't worry if people " make fun of me". When u grow up also u will realise thst it does not matter what people think.
As for my rig it won't matter what I say cuz there is no proof of it so why bother. There are many things I see online thst happen way more then live. But who cares?
If they rig 1 % which is 10 million where u gonna find it? U have not played 1 billion hands to get the 10 million nor has anyone else. Many players have their data base. If u could get ahold of all 1 billion hands with all hole cards of all players maybe u could find something. So basically never gonna happen

So in your sports example u are saying a guy had millions and still did something stupid to get more??? Weird huh? Wie rd how even billionaire want to make more money and will do almost anything. U think site thst makes billions would also want to make more money?

So u mean some guys uncovered the hard to figure out pot ripper scandal eine his win rate was 9 billion bb/ 100 hands? Wow deep detective work figuring out the average win rate for him was like 50 times higher then everyone else. They do alot of in depth analysis for figure out something was wrong?

I would rephrase this as "I don't worry about people that definitely make fun of me".

I am going to put it plain and simple. For the sites to increase their revenue significantly enough, they would have to rig a big part of their deal. Do this and people will find it out. End result, you lose your business. Rig a small part of your deal as you suggested, the sites revenue increase would not worth the risk. And again, it would be discovered.

Why and how, you would ask? Well, simple. How would the site be able to make a rigged system capable of selecting hands to rig and not change the statistics of the expectancy without being able to discover it through a simple check of the HH's. There is also the risks of programers snitching out. There is also the freakin' logic that why would they do it ?

You don't seem to actually have any decent argument for the supposed rig. And also, dude, you know poker is a zero sum game. If it is rigged, it cannot be rigged against one player ( well it could, but again, too easy to discover ), it has to be rigged against all of the players. Basically, this would again mean to alter the percentages. This again would also be discovered. Basically, up until now no one has been able to discover rigs and use them to their advantage. No one besides you, apparently.

The majority of the millions of OLP players seem pleased with the deal that they are being given. Why ? Because they have enough wits to think something through before launching into insane allegations. You are a grown man, you say. Do you actually think poker sites would be able to pull off basically a worldwide scam which, by your statements, rips players off money and no one, absolutely no one from the millions of OLP players wouldn't eventually get on to something and uncover their scam ?

This is the last time I will ever ask you. Please explain your rig. And also, please post your graph and your online screen name. I want to look at the results of the most brightest poker player out there. If you will only write a pathetic excuse filled with grammar errors ( which I think you will ) and not post your results/graph/screen name, please don't respond at all. Ban yourself. And get some paranoia meds as well.

Oh, and for the audits. For Pokerstars, I know that the "no-namers" Cigital audited them. They also had a review done by Gaming Laboratories International.

But, I guess they are all in the worldwide scam that no one has ever been able to demonstrate. Clever bastards. I have to become an illuminati, start eating some lizards and maybe they will let me in the scam. I also hear that they only admit people who are up to date with Game of Thrones. Sucks for you.

UB literally stole money from people was caught and there business still did not end. Are u serious? If government didn't stop poker ub and full tilt would still be in business cheating people today.
Nobody said there doing this or anything to increase revenue. Maybe they are doing it just simply so people enjoy playing longer hours. Obv there would be more rake. But I truly think most sites just want to see players enjoy the game and we all know in reality poker van be boring. So any way to make a customer have more enjoyment is great on both ends.
When was poker stars audit? 1999?? I have actually spoken to a guy at cugitsl. Not sure I can mention names, if I can I will put it in. He told me str8 on the phone that any site can change or alter any card coming off the deck. Let me know if I can post a name here

I was on the phone with Hitler right now. He told me str8 on the phone that my moustache is way cooler than his ever was. I am starting to get the feeling that you are either very bored at home and don't have anything to do other than make up stories or that you are mentally deranged. One or the other.

They are being audited periodically, I'm pretty sure they were audited quite recently. If somebody can help me with a specific date, that would be asur big thank you. And I'm absolutely sure it wasn't 1999.

You have my permission to put names in here.

You had to phone a guy at Cigital (I assume that's what you mean) to find this out? We don't need any names, thanks - of course it's possible that a site could have their software alter a card coming off the deck (depending on exactly how you mean this). So what?

The sites can do this ? Can you please expand ?

I'm not sure what there is to expand on. RNG produces a certain result, software substitutes cards in some fashion. Kind of seems like common sense that this would be possible.

But it really doesn't matter whether a site were to use a faulty or "rigged" RNG, or have a legit RNG and then tamper with the deal after the fact - either one should show up in any hand history analysis.

I would assume he means it's possible any site could do anything, but there is no proof that any site has altered their cards. In any case, what cards the players have received is what they have tested, and no one has ever shown any statistical abnormalities over the long run in this regard.

So, basically ( Bobo, Mike ) there is no way for the sites to do this without them being easily caught ?

Well said.

On a meaningful level, I wouldn't expect so. That is to say, I'm sure a site could do this a small amount of times without being detected, but at virtually no benefit to themselves. If they did so on a level that would generate them appreciable returns, I can't see how it would be possible to do so in a way that wouldn't be seen in the results. And of course, anything done at a level where people are able to observe it without even analyzing their hand histories should be trivially easy to prove statistically.

Or, to put it more succinctly - no, I don't believe there is.

That's why I think jungmit's mention of this is so ridiculous (as are most things he says) - he makes it sound like some great revelation, when in fact it's no revelation at all, and it changes nothing. Whether one alters results at the RNG level or at some point afterwards, it should be detectable in the results.

I can't imagine that they could do it as often as they would need to to make enough additional rake to take the chance of being caught, or of an employee spilling the beans.

If you go along with jungmit's theory that they let him win one day and lose the next, even though it's arguable whether or not they would make a few more cents in rake from him, then I'll admit they would never be caught, as jungmit will never even try to prove it.

Please do so. Thank you.

Thanks for the responses.

This endless ongoing debate is quite harmful, IMO, to the new players. Ruins their experience when they hear and see a lot of loonies left and right saying poker is so rigged without evidence to back it up.

Yesterday in the big 6th anniversary of the sunday storm a bunch of guys from Romania were discussing in the chat how skewed Pokerstars is and that they have a list. That list would be how much to reward players in money ( either in tournaments or cash ) based on the player pool size from the countries and the rake each country produces. Of course they rambled that Romania is on the wrong side of the list. And of course they were very likely losing players because they already busted at the moment this conversation between them was taking place in the chat.