1.That's if I trust the data or the analyst. Wiki is right about that. I certainly couldn't be bothered to do it myself or pay one. I am sure the math is fine and everything checks out. I don't care much one way or the other, until we get government intervention, with government analysts and experts, and sites are forced to reveal all the data.

2. I have not played on any of the big sites for a few years and don't play much online. I don't see much wrong with the site I currently play on (Sure Bet, before that I played a bit on Yachting when I was ill). I certainly don't bother to keep hand histories even though the facility is available.

3. As you pointed out in an earlier post you do need experts to do expert analysis using computers. You have to find someone who is an impartial and independent expert to analyse all the data.

4. I don't care what they are saying, because I don't know them or trust them. Put a government paid expert analyst in control and force the sites to hand over all the data.

Riggies will just say the governments are in on it. What would you say to them.

Also, you probably have not noticed but many countries have regulated and are taxing this industry now. Eventually the US will catch up.

Are you saying you have faith that the games in those countries (France, Italy, Spain Estonia etc) are all legit due to the government regulation? Yes or no.

All the best.

Nah nobody ever would Not at all. It is incredibly hard to believe that every site is rigged, but rigged in such a clever way as to be undetectable by hundreds of thousands of players. Of course it would, but it would also be incredibly easy to prove it if they did it unbelievably easily.

Like ive asked many times, do you have any idea how incredibly naive and stupid you promoters sound. If it was so undetectable, why do so many people complain about how manipulated it is? And to people like myself and others who know its rigged beyond a doubt, you sound like complete morons.
I know youre posting like ignorant fools to confuse newer players, but come on now.

If it's so detectable, then why can't/won't rigged posters post data that can be corroborated by others to verify the claims they make?

There's a difference between seeing a pattern that isn't there and proving a pattern that is there. This thread is filled with people doing the former, and nobody doing the later.

The answer to your question is because they're ******ed.

Yes, you truly are the sharpest knife in the drawer and you make everybody else look really foolish.

this is exactly what the "promoters" have been saying all this time... so we agree!!!! FINALLY! and if the rig is detectable by human observation, then it should be possible to detect it by statistical analysis!!! lets see the analyses demonstrating the rig!!!

(fyi: i'm sure you know this, but the "undetectable rig" idea is the brainchild of resident rigtard easyonkemp.)

EXCELLENT!!

And again, EXCELLENT!
SO......why waste your time trying to have a discussion with these POS?
Their obvious financial ties to the OLP scam prevents them from saying anything other then what they say over and over again.
If you want a real discussion with real players, this is NOT the site for it.

Wow, why is this discussion devolving into insults? Why bother posting unless you are trying to have a meaningful discussion. I understand people have done statistical analyses of hand histories, but I'm not quite sure what the analysis can or should prove. Are we simply measuring whether the way hands play out conform to the kind of statistics you would find on PokerStove? I think my concern is whether a statistical analyses can even show you something like this. On Bovada, you don't even know who the other players are, so you could theoretically be sitting at a table with all Bovada bots. The system could be set up so that all of their hands look normal, but when you (the one real player) is in a hand, the deck will be skewed to favor the bots - maybe not 100% of the time, but just enough so that when your stack is involved, they are making sure the bot wins. Or there could be a player who can see your cards. I'm not saying that this IS what is happening, but I don't know how statistics would bring such scams to light. If the statistical analyses are so clear that anyone w stat 101 can understand them, then don't you think there are people out there who know a lot more statistics and can find a way to cover their tracks?

I've seen a lot of mention of Pokerstars in this forum - are people referring specifically to PS or to online poker in general?

blatantlyrigged's right, the only site for neutral discussion of whether poker is rigged is pokerisrigged.com

So why are you here?

It devolved to that the day it was started. It increases your post count. Essentially. I think Laughing Assassin tested all-ins to see if the best hand won as often as it should (it did), and spadebidder tested a billion flops to see if cards came as often as they should (they did). It's fairly straightforward, and yes, they can. Which is why everyone on here was annoyed if not outraged when Bodog switched to all anonymous tables. Well, not house bots so much, but the fact that if two colluders managed to end up on a table with each other, you're hosed. Sure, that's possible, but all you'd have to do is compare hands with others until you could prove or disprove it.

Luckily Bodog is a horribly run joke of a company that doesn't actually anonymize players, and simple software can match Player 7 or whoever to their actual login ID, making tracking still somewhat possible. Sure, but it's not very likely. Well, in the case of Superusers, statistics would bring them to light the same way they did in the Cereus scandal. Sure. The problem arises when you're not just rigging one table, or a few tables, but thousands of hands an hour. PokerStars deals something like 1,900,000 hands an hour, and that's just cash games. To rig those hands, you'd have to not only keep track of whatever magic rig you're running on each player, but also who they're playing with and those people's rigs. And you have to do this in a way that increases rake enough to pay for all the rigging/covering up, PLUS makes extra money.

So far nobody's come up with an even theoretical way this could work. Pokerstars refers specifically to PS. They're the go to example site though, mostly because they're the biggest.

Yesterday I lost around 8-9 all in's where I was very far ahead each time.

9 buy ins.. EV value +18$ or more.

I've suddenly lost over 50 dollars, a lot of them with sick EV throw, just before I reach my 50 dollar "bonus".. oh of course there is no such thing as bonus. What you get is what they steal.

out of 9 all ins.

I won 1 of them with 45% chance.

8 losses with 55-85% chance.

This is just messed up.

This is almost certainly down to your messing up the stats. Do the following:

1) Show us the hand history of a game where you believe you should win 85% of the time.

2) Tell us how you arrived at that 85% figure

3) Tell us exactly what you believe that 85% figure means.

We may be able to correct some misunderstandings on your part.

(Avoid using the word 'sick' as it means both extremely good and extremely bad and thus has no place in analytical discussions.)

Or maybe normal things happen but you only remember the "INCREDIBLE" things?


Ok for fun. Which site would this be so all the other riggies can go there and play on a nice fair site?

Not real...THE MATRIX?

AH here we go with riggie feelings again.

Before he bothered pmsl
You do realise the concept of texas hold em right? You do realise that the turn and river are also part of the hand and not just there for decoration?


Be careful what threats you make i have seen people permabanned for less. If you have decided then there is no use talking to you anymore.

Have we finally found the mythical intelligent riggie? I thought it was just a rumour!

Coming from the guy who can't prove any of his baseless claims other than HAVING A FEELING! So many people? How many exactly? All of the bad players maybe? If you know it's rigged BEYOND a doubt please post your evidence here and all of us shills/promoters/whatever you claim we are will bow to you and then leave this site forever. You will have fame and fortune and be the "MAN" who bought down the scam that is online poker.
OH great....more random %

This.

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $0.91 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 4.5, Hands: 68
Seat 2: Hero ( $2.46 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 5, 3B: 2, AF: 3.6, Hands: 264067
Seat 3: Player3 ( $1.51 USD ) - VPIP: 78, PFR: 28, 3B: 0, AF: 21.0, Hands: 32
Seat 4: Player4 ( $3.54 USD ) - VPIP: 26, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 2.4, Hands: 93
Seat 5: Player5 ( $3.28 USD ) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 9, 3B: 5, AF: 1.1, Hands: 457
Seat 6: Player6 ( $0.74 USD ) - VPIP: 67, PFR: 3, 3B: 0, AF: 0.5, Hands: 33
Hero posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ac Ad ]
Player4 folds
Player5 raises [$0.06 USD]
Player6 calls [$0.06 USD]
Player1 calls [$0.06 USD]
Hero raises [$2.45 USD]
Player3 calls [$1.49 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Player1 folds
Hero wins $0.95 USD
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 4s, Qh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]
Hero shows [Ac, Ad ]
Player3 shows [Th, Ah ]
Player3 wins $3.04 USD from main pot


87% chance to win preflop all in

Not saying this is impossible lose situation.. I've lost a hell of lot 5%:ers, but the frequency of these are just mad.

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Poker Stars)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $1.11 USD ) - VPIP: 61, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 36
Seat 2: Player2 ( $4.07 USD ) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 1.9, Hands: 664
Seat 3: Player3 ( $0.97 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 44
Seat 4: Player4 ( $2.19 USD ) - VPIP: 23, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: 3.3, Hands: 210
Seat 5: Hero ( $2.70 USD ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 5, 3B: 2, AF: 3.6, Hands: 264067
Seat 6: Player6 ( $1.05 USD ) - VPIP: 40, PFR: 20, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 10
Hero posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
Player6 posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 9s 5s ]
Player1 calls [$0.02 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Hero calls [$0.01 USD]
Player6 checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, 3s, 5d ]
Hero bets [$0.04 USD]
Player6 calls [$0.04 USD]
Player1 calls [$0.04 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
Hero bets [$0.18 USD]
Player6 raises [$0.38 USD]
Player1 folds
Hero raises [$1.14 USD]
Player6 calls [$0.61 USD]
Hero wins $0.33 USD
** Dealing River ** [ 8h ]
Hero shows [9s, 5s ]
Player6 shows [8c, 5c ]
Player6 wins $2.06 USD from main pot

93% chance to win on turn at all in

It's incredible the 60%+ VPIP players keep getting these extreme cards, if you ask me it's because pokerstars like to reward players who dumps in a lot of cash, and want them to win a big bunch of money in short time and after that they logically share the money to other players after because of their bad play.

I'm lol'ing at the above dialogue and how this discussion "has devolved into insults" anyways online poker is dead to me post-BF.

/thread

OK, so now we have a hand and we're good to go.

Can you tell us where you got the 87% figure and what you think it means?

Bye.

Hope you enjoy playing live.