The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 794 - Internet Poker

Josem · 01-12-2010, 10:24 AM

Can you please provide a link to Matusow suspecting this before it became public as a result of 2p2 discovering it?

FWIW, here's some info on him commenting on it after we proved the misbehaviour: http://news.bluffmagazine.com/matuso...imatebet-2427/

Josem · 01-12-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerProLv

My main point here is that online poker has been rigged before and probally is now. This is figured out by the use of probability in economics and logic. And as long as the sites continue to be run where there is no consequences and true regulation it is going to continue.

So use your probability/economics/logic to show us where the cheating is happening?

Surely it is not reasonable to accuse everyone in the entire industry to be cheating, is it?

Quote:

Second off I believe UB and AP to be in the top 5 largest poker sites and people got burned on them.

No, combined, they are 7th: http://www.pokerscout.com/

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

So use your probability/economics/logic to show us where the cheating is happening?

Surely it is not reasonable to accuse everyone in the entire industry to be cheating, is it?

No, combined, they are 7th: http://www.pokerscout.com/

Not at the time this took place.

Arouet · 01-12-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerProLv

First off I have not been sitting here yelling that they are all crooks anymore than you are not denying that bad **** has gone on before.

My main point here is that online poker has been rigged before and probally is now. This is figured out by the use of probability in economics and logic. And as long as the sites continue to be run where there is no consequences and true regulation it is going to continue.

Second off I believe UB and AP to be in the top 5 largest poker sites and people got burned on them.

You have said you are an insider: do you have ANY evidence of wrongdoing other than a site taking in deposits shortly before shutting down?

tk1133 · 01-12-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerProLv

First off I have not been sitting here yelling that they are all crooks anymore than you are not denying that bad **** has gone on before.

My main point here is that online poker has been rigged before and probally is now. This is figured out by the use of probability in economics and logic. And as long as the sites continue to be run where there is no consequences and true regulation it is going to continue.

Second off I believe UB and AP to be in the top 5 largest poker sites and people got burned on them.

+1!

quarantined · 01-12-2010, 10:42 AM

As I have stated in a couple of my [limited] previous posts, I think this forum is fantastic. The wealth of information, on a plethora of subjects is outstanding. I never intended to post, I am far more inclined to listen, and hopefully be entertained, but I suppose this subject intrigues anyone who plays online poker. I don't understand the utter venom displayed by people, calling people retarded because they have a point of view that differs from your own, jumping on people who make typos, or grammatical errors. Arouet, you are someone who's posts have impressed me, you don't stoop down to explain, you acknowledge that there is no certainty either way, but the burden of proof is on those who think the sites cheat, and I believe that's the only way to approach it.

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarantined

As I have stated in a couple of my [limited] previous posts, I think this forum is fantastic. The wealth of information, on a plethora of subjects is outstanding. I never intended to post, I am far more inclined to listen, and hopefully be entertained, but I suppose this subject intrigues anyone who plays online poker. I don't understand the utter venom displayed by people, calling people retarded because they have a point of view that differs from your own, jumping on people who make typos, or grammatical errors. Arouet, you are someone who's posts have impressed me, you don't stoop down to explain, you acknowledge that there is no certainty either way, but the burden of proof is on those who think the sites cheat, and I believe that's the only way to approach it.

+1.

And for the record I can take a sarcastic remark or joke or whatever. But it seems a few people are here just to flame.

I do disagree with you about the burden of proof. As i stated in my first post I have played for 10 years and supported until very recently that online poker is not rigged.

My problem here is until it is regulated and can be pretty well proven that no cheating is going on, then alot of fish will stay away. Almost every fish I have met in live play believes online poker to be rigged. And until its well proven its not, that is action we will never see.

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arouet

You have said you are an insider: do you have ANY evidence of wrongdoing other than a site taking in deposits shortly before shutting down?

Superuser accounts have existed on some sites, but the physical evidence is no longer there.

V0dkanockers · 01-12-2010, 10:58 AM

I find it interesting how people love to say online poker is rigged. I went to dinner the other night with some people. The husband goes on and on about how good of a poker player he is. He then proceeds to "educate" me on how online is rigged, bad beats etc. Then in his next breath he goes on and on about his last trip to Vegas and in a tournament he has AA, goes all-in and is called by 94 off suit. The other guy sucks out and he chalks it up to "that's poker". I wanted to reach across the table and slap that fool.

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V0dkanockers

I find it interesting how people love to say online poker is rigged. I went to dinner the other night with some people. The husband goes on and on about how good of a poker player he is. He then proceeds to "educate" me on how online is rigged, bad beats etc. Then in his next breath he goes on and on about his last trip to Vegas and in a tournament he has AA, goes all-in and is called by 94 off suit. The other guy sucks out and he chalks it up to "that's poker". I wanted to reach across the table and slap that fool.

You are right. That is exactly how your wsop tv watching chris moneymaker fans see it. But, they're plenty of serious players like myself who understand that rigging goes on.

qpw · 01-12-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerProLv

I have played for 10 years and supported until very recently that online poker is not rigged.

Can you see why you are coming across as such an idiot?

For ten years you think it's not rigged. Most of the non rigtards here only go as far as 'probably' isn't rigged.

Then, you do a complete volte face and start saying it is and berating anyone who disagrees with you.

fing halarious!

Quote:

My problem here is until it is regulated...

tk1133!

It IS you.

(Most sites are regulated, actually.)

qpw · 01-12-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerProLv

But, they're plenty of serious retards like myself who imagine that rigging goes on.

FYP.

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qpw

Can you see why you are coming across as such an idiot?

For ten years you think it's not rigged. Most of the non rigtards here only go as far as 'probably' isn't rigged.

Then, you do a complete volte face and start saying it is and berating anyone who disagrees with you.

fing halarious!

tk1133!

It IS you.

(Most sites are regulated, actually.)

Every site claims to be regulated. And anyone can claim to be regulated. Doesn't mean much..

PokerProLv · 01-12-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qpw

FYP.

Manipulate my quotes its all you got. And super user accounts are not something that are imagined kid. Its reality!

Arouet · 01-12-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quarantined

As I have stated in a couple of my [limited] previous posts, I think this forum is fantastic. The wealth of information, on a plethora of subjects is outstanding. I never intended to post, I am far more inclined to listen, and hopefully be entertained, but I suppose this subject intrigues anyone who plays online poker. I don't understand the utter venom displayed by people, calling people retarded because they have a point of view that differs from your own, jumping on people who make typos, or grammatical errors. Arouet, you are someone who's posts have impressed me, you don't stoop down to explain, you acknowledge that there is no certainty either way, but the burden of proof is on those who think the sites cheat, and I believe that's the only way to approach it.

While I appreciate your comments it should not be overlooked that many of these posters who call others retarded have provided a WEALTH of information in this thread on how to analyze your stats, what you should look for in trying to figure out if rigging is going on, ways to think about the game, statistics, variance, etc. While I perhaps have a more diplomatic tone in my little tidbits here, they are the one's who have provided the real useful information in this thread.

What you are seeing in their more biting comments is their frustration in providing the same explanations over and over again, only to be completely ignored by most rigtards. Look at the most recent exchange with Donko: he's been told that his sample is more than enough to give a decent idea of what is going on and he still makes excuses for not actually looking at his hands.

Look at this latest guy: Pokerprolv. If we take him at his word, he's a poker insider and despite that all he can provide is the same gut feeling that things aren't right.

Do your self a favour: read through this thread, filter through the junk, and focus on Josem, QPW, Spadebidder, and Monteroy's posts (I'm sure I've missed a few). Then look at how many rigtards have followed their advice.