The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 684 - Internet Poker

spadebidder · 11-04-2009, 10:09 PM

I'm quoting from Bobo Fat's quote, since I've had tk on ignore for a while.

Quote:

I live in the USA, and I'm no where close to a biggot nor think my country is better then any body else's. I have a huge problem w/ foreign Indian Tribes, governing my online poker money.

The irony of those two statements is amazing.

I understand that one specific government that happens to be run by the Mohawk Native American tribe has a bad reputation, but the nature of bigotry is generalizing and using stereotypes. This should be a dictionary example imo. He needs to reexamine his beliefs and quit rationalizing. This sounds like it came straight out of the mouth of Archie Bunker. The grammar and spelling appear to be from the same source, as well.

Josem · 11-05-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

I have a huge problem w/ foreign Indian Tribes, governing my online poker money. AB/UB? What kind of "regulation" is that?

I agree entirely with you that the regulation there is crap. I don't think there's anyone who is not associated with the KGC (or one of their licensed poker sites such as AP, UB, Bodog, & Full Tilt) that would argue that the KGC is of any real value at all.

I think that we all agree that this is not a US vs Rest of World issue. It's a "good regulator" (Currently UK, Isle of Man, Australia, etc. but possibly USA in the future) against "bad regulator" (Kahnawake) issue.

Shick · 11-05-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spadebidder

I'm quoting from Bobo Fat's quote, since I've had tk on ignore for a while.

The irony of those two statements is amazing.

I understand that one specific government that happens to be run by the Mohawk Native American tribe has a bad reputation, but the nature of bigotry is generalizing and using stereotypes. This should be a dictionary example imo. He needs to reexamine his beliefs and quit rationalizing. This sounds like it came straight out of the mouth of Archie Bunker. The grammar and spelling appear to be from the same source, as well.

Maybe it's the fact that the Kahnawake provide very little in actual regulation, but gain quit a lot in fees. Personally I have no idea why they are able to skim so much from online sites in this day and age. It's a racket. What do they do exactly?

SwedishMedusa · 11-05-2009, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

So I don't know where you get off acting like I pointed out PS or FTP, in particular....

afaik you certainly insinuated that at IOM sites are more or less unregulated, or at the very least that you don't trust them (from other thread):

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsNotLupus

I never heard of a site playing poker on their customers accounts. Most sites dont even allow their employees to have an account on the site they work for. I guess the same ruling is valid for pokerstars. So I was wondering how many gaming laws Pokerstars violated when that employee started playing hands for a customer.
And why pokerstars would break the integrity of their customers, just to set things right in a freeroll is beyond me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

+1
But....
What gambling laws? This isn't Las Vegas...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlunderCity

You trust Vegas more than the Isle of Man?

Interesting...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

I can physically shake hands w/ a vegas gaming official...interesting...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa

and you can't with an iom official?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

Interesting...You tell me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportsjefe

*shakes head*

If I'm being leveled... so what.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man

It's not an Indian shell game, it's an actual place, with actual people, that you can actually find on a map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebasdess

You are right.

Those are only cyber-people...

*rolleyes*

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa

http://www.gov.im/gambling/benefits/aboutgcc.xml

"The Treasury devotes resources to the Commission which is made up of a Director, a Policy Officer, five Gaming Inspectors and two Secretaries, who jointly have over 60 years’ experience in the licensing, regulation and operational aspects of gambling."

As stated by posters above IOM is a real place, with actual regulations etc.

You assume too much.

Your attitude (which leads to people calling you a bigot) seems to be "if it's outside of US it must mean it's unregulated, that there are no laws there, and that any gaming license is just a fancy etiquette you get to put on your site for a fee".

If you're attitude instead was "hmm I wonder if there are *actually* any regulations for these sites" and then you would go out and research the subject, then people would look at you differently, and respect you more.

More importantly I believe that with such an attitude, applied not only to online poker but to other aspects of life, you would be a less suspicious individual and end up with more energy to use in a positive and constructive way in your life.

assume less, research more. be suspicious and skeptical by all means, I think a certain degree of that is very healthy, but do not assume. (negative) assumptions lead to overly suspiciousness, which may lead to paranoia.

tk1133 · 11-05-2009, 05:57 PM

I'm not here to advertise for any sites, but it should be pretty clear what site I trust...

tk1133 · 11-05-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa

afaik you certainly insinuated that at IOM sites are more or less unregulated, or at the very least that you don't trust them (from other thread):

Your attitude (which leads to people calling you a bigot) seems to be "if it's outside of US it must mean it's unregulated, that there are no laws there, and that any gaming license is just a fancy etiquette you get to put on your site for a fee".

If you're attitude instead was "hmm I wonder if there are *actually* any regulations for these sites" and then you would go out and research the subject, then people would look at you differently, and respect you more.

More importantly I believe that with such an attitude, applied not only to online poker but to other aspects of life, you would be a less suspicious individual and end up with more energy to use in a positive and constructive way in your life.

assume less, research more. be suspicious and skeptical by all means, I think a certain degree of that is very healthy, but do not assume. (negative) assumptions lead to overly suspiciousness, which may lead to paranoia.

Take my quotes out of context.....

You asked a question on who I'd trust more a Vegas official or an Isle of Man official. I think common sense that is that I live in the USA...kind of no brainer.... But that was a hypothetical question wasn't it? Does LV or Nev. gaming commission regulate any poker sites? your turning my response into a statement that you claim I made. So you do some research or learn how to comprehend english.

KingOfFelt · 11-05-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

Take my quotes out of context.....

You asked a question on who I'd trust more a Vegas official or an Isle of Man official. I think common sense that is that I live in the USA...kind of no brainer.... But that was a hypothetical question wasn't it? Does LV or Nev. gaming commission regulate any poker sites? your turning my response into a statement that you claim I made. So you do some research or learn how to comprehend english.

It is possible to trust both the Isle of Man and the Nevada Gaming Commission. It isn't like if you trust one you can't trust the other. I think at this point you are taking a little less hard of a stance than you have in the past because you realize you may have been off base a little.

tk1133 · 11-05-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfFelt

It is possible to trust both the Isle of Man and the Nevada Gaming Commission. It isn't like if you trust one you can't trust the other. I think at this point you are taking a little less hard of a stance than you have in the past because you realize you may have been off base a little.

I didn't say I don't trust the Isle of Mann, I said I could shake hands w/ a Vegas Official. In other words, I am capable and financially stable enough to afford a trip to the Nev. Gaming Comm. if I needed to. I'm not gonna fly to Costa Rica or the Isle of Mann over a poker ($$)dispute....

tk1133 · 11-05-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfFelt

It is possible to trust both the Isle of Man and the Nevada Gaming Commission. It isn't like if you trust one you can't trust the other. I think at this point you are taking a little less hard of a stance than you have in the past because you realize you may have been off base a little.

And I realize from viewing my posts from an outside perspective how I could come across to some people. There's a reason why I always show MJ so much praise in this thread...

Josem · 11-05-2009, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

Take my quotes out of context.....

You asked a question on who I'd trust more a Vegas official or an Isle of Man official. I think common sense that is that I live in the USA...kind of no brainer....

I don't think there's any reason to trust a Vegas official ahead of an IOM official.

Trust is an issue of two key components: character and capability. Those two factors are interwined in the meaning of trust. You would trust your mother to look after you generally, but you wouldn't trust her to perform open heart surgery... because you value her character, but don't value her surgical capabilities.

The same principles apply here. Let's consider the "character" and "capability" issues separately.

I don't think there's really any doubt to the character of either group of people - both are well meaning. I don't think we have any easily available evidence in favour or against the character of either group.

However, when it comes to capability, you have the choice between a group that has been doing it for some time now, has been evaluated by the UK independently and found to be amongst the best in the world in Isle of Man. On the other hand, the Vegas team has no experience in the matter, has no rules, has no independent endorsement, and does not even make a claim to being able to regulate online poker sites AFAIK.

Thus, it's pretty nonsensical to trust a Vegas official ahead of an IOM official.

spadebidder · 11-05-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

Thus, it's pretty nonsensical to trust a Vegas official ahead of an IOM official.

oh snap

SwedishMedusa · 11-06-2009, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

Take my quotes out of context.....

You asked a question on who I'd trust more a Vegas official or an Isle of Man official. I think common sense that is that I live in the USA...kind of no brainer.... But that was a hypothetical question wasn't it? Does LV or Nev. gaming commission regulate any poker sites? your turning my response into a statement that you claim I made. So you do some research or learn how to comprehend english.

The original issue wasn't about who you'd trust *more*, it was about you being a bigot (and being uninformed):

Quote:

What gambling laws? This isn't Las Vegas...

You are clearly(?) insinuating that the site in question does not abide by any gambling laws, i.e. is "unregulated" because it's outside of Vegas/US.

I admit English is not my primary language though so maybe I misinterpreted that statement.

tk1133 · 11-06-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa

The original issue wasn't about who you'd trust *more*, it was about you being a bigot (and being uninformed):

You are clearly(?) insinuating that the site in question does not abide by any gambling laws, i.e. is "unregulated" because it's outside of Vegas/US.

I admit English is not my primary language though so maybe I misinterpreted that statement.

Again you failed to understand the context and texture of the conversation in that thread....

qpw · 11-06-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk1133

Again you failed to understand the context and texture of the conversation in that thread....

tk, he hasn't failed to understand anything.

You are, as usual, captaining the fail boat as it heads, full tilt, to fail land.

DonkoTheClown · 11-06-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josem

I don't think there's any reason to trust a Vegas official ahead of an IOM official.

Trust is an issue of two key components: character and capability. Those two factors are interwined in the meaning of trust. You would trust your mother to look after you generally, but you wouldn't trust her to perform open heart surgery... because you value her character, but don't value her surgical capabilities.

The same principles apply here. Let's consider the "character" and "capability" issues separately.

I don't think there's really any doubt to the character of either group of people - both are well meaning. I don't think we have any easily available evidence in favour or against the character of either group.

However, when it comes to capability, you have the choice between a group that has been doing it for some time now, has been evaluated by the UK independently and found to be amongst the best in the world in Isle of Man. On the other hand, the Vegas team has no experience in the matter, has no rules, has no independent endorsement, and does not even make a claim to being able to regulate online poker sites AFAIK.

Thus, it's pretty nonsensical to trust a Vegas official ahead of an IOM official.

These days, I trust government officials in the United States a whole lot less. So to me, the Isle of Man is looking a whole lot more credible than the Nevada Gaming Commission. The biggest difference is brick and mortar and online. It is hard to make comparisons.