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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 2,162 35.67%
No 3,620 59.73%
Undecided 279 4.60%
Voters: 6061. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2008, 12:36 AM   #151
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Of course, playing devil's advocate here... they could have the most random numbers ever, with a super expensive hardware RNG certified by all the top dudes in the RNG business, but if they don't use them...

I mean, the accusations around here are basically that X-site intentionally deals specific hands to specific players with the intention of increasing their profit. So, why can't they just outright stack the deck? Of course, this would be a detectable bit of their server-side software, which should be regularly audited as well.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:14 AM   #152
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Every major site uses a hardware RNG. Stars even has links to the specific model they use (it uses entropy from micro temperature fluctuations) with extensive documented proof.

FTP also uses a well-known brand.
***********************ftp used a well known brand, info is not on there site and testing of it is not on there site. Therefore, i don't know what they use and please don't direct me to some forum post of a site that was popular 5 years ago. Anyways, who cares right people still play and it appears to be within normal guidelines. Like i said, stars needs to cancel the vip program and the fallout should be minimum, looks like a no brainer to me.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:15 AM   #153
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Random Number Generator (RNG) and Shuffling
Creating a fair and quality gaming experience for our players is our highest priority at Cake Poker. The solution chosen for RNG/Shuffling is critical to ensuring a fair game for all players. Consequently, Cake Poker investigated many systems and algorithms before deciding on implementation of what we believe is a superior solution.

Cake Poker’s RNG solution ensures the even distribution of cards whereby no sequence or relationship can be discovered in any way. The RNG solution is unaware of what’s going on in the game itself, so when the game requests a random card, the RNG has no idea of whose turn it is nor how the game is being played. We believe this is the ultimate impartial tool, better than the physical shuffling of cards.

Cake Poker uses the cryptographically-secure RNG system found in Microsoft’s CryptoAPI. "Cryptographically secure" means that the RNG is so completely random that even a large amount of computer analysis cannot predict or detect patterns in the output, a fact that has been validated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

Technical Systems Testing RNG Certification
Technical Systems Testing verifies compliance with any applicable requirements from the following sets of standards and specifications:

Generally accepted industry standards for highly regulated jurisdictions, and
Cake Gaming's technical specifications for their RNG
Microsoft CryptoAPI RNG
Microsoft’s CryptoAPI RNG complies with Federal Information Processing Standard 186-2 appendix 3.1, using SHA-1 as the G function. It has been validated by the NIST’s Cryptographic Module Validation Program. Details on this may be found at
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc.../fipseval.mspx.

It is important to note that computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.

The validation of Microsoft’s CryptoAPI by the National Institute of Standards and Technology proves the PRNG system used is highly random and highly secure as it is a critical building block for the CryptoAPI. For more information on NIST processing standards and security validation, please visit:

Federal Information Processing Standards 140-1 and 140-2:
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/fips/index.html
Cryptographic Standards Validation Program at NIST: http://csrc.nist.gov/cryptval/
Computer Security Resource Clearinghouse: http://csrc.nist.gov/index.html
If you require any further information about the fairness of our games or Cake Poker’s RNG/Shuffling implementation, please contact us at support@cakepoker.com.

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*** cake wasted there time posting this and spending money on testing...dumb mgmt
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:16 AM   #154
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

seems like there is many systems out there for rng or randomness of cards..cake poker just told you so **********Consequently, Cake Poker investigated many systems and algorithms before deciding on implementation of what we believe is a superior solution.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:19 AM   #155
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorer View Post
ftp used a well known brand, info is not on there site and testing of it is not on there site. Therefore, i don't know what they use
Email support - they will send you all the relevant information.
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:21 AM   #156
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorer View Post
*** cake wasted there time posting this and spending money on testing...dumb mgmt
why are you here again now?

we get it - you think online poker isn't fair for whatever reason. why don't you get that no one is interested in what you think?

you know when people say stuff like "If I could convince just one person... then it would all be worthwhile" ?

you haven't convinced one person.

please, no more drinking and posting tonight. and preferably no other night.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:23 AM   #157
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

hey devilboy---

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues View Post
and they arent truly random. thats impossible to do.
Quote:
originally posted by devilgirl--Where did you learn that? It's incorrect.
Quote:
It is important to note that computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.


you gonna take me up on my $1million dollar bet? i got the funds.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:28 AM   #158
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

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Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues View Post
hey devilboy---









you gonna take me up on my $1million dollar bet? i got the funds.
I don't have a million but I'll ship my entire roll to a mod and you can match it. Then we have a bet.

Deal?
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:37 AM   #159
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

so you are going to prove that the top ten networks have legit RNGs for ring games and mtts/sngs thru statistical analysis?

wow!

we have a deal.

in the meantime, can anyone point me in the direction of any analysis done in the last couple years for any site? ive found a couple for pokerstars and party back in 2003, but that is it.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:38 AM   #160
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues View Post
so you are going to prove that the top ten networks have legit RNGs for ring games and mtts/sngs thru statistical analysis?

wow!

we have a deal.
No the bet is that it's possible to generate true random numbers using a hardware RNG. You said that this is impossible. I disagree. That's what I'm betting on.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:43 AM   #161
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
It is important to note that computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers.
this is a fact. no reason to bet on it.

i will bet you any amount of money that you cant prove that the top ten networks have legit RNGs for ring games and mtts/sngs thru statistical analysis?

that was my original bet, i did a bad job of explaining myself. i often have that problem.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:48 AM   #162
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLimitLeagues View Post
this is a fact. no reason to bet on it.
We're not talking about computers. We're talking about hardware RNGs.

Here's what I posted earlier:

Quote:
No you clearly have no clue how an RNG works. They don't use pseudo-random number formulas. That's what your PC does, but that's not what a hardware RNG system does at all. They generate true random numbers using entropy from an external source (e.g. atmospheric conditions, alpha-decay or micro temperature fluctuations)
Then you said
Quote:
and they arent truly random. thats impossible to do.
I'm willing to bet you that your statement above is incorrect. It is possible to generate true random numbers with a hardware RNG

That quote about computers not being able to do random numbers using math has nothing to do with hardware RNGs.
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:35 AM   #163
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilboy666 View Post
I'm willing to bet you that your statement above is incorrect. It is possible to generate true random numbers with a hardware RNG
You will need to define "true random numbers" very well in order to win. Quantum physics is still a bit iffy on the subject.
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Old 07-24-2008, 03:48 AM   #164
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

devilboy, something wrong with you?? i shouldn't have to email them, it should be listed on there site. Next, ftp sean agreed with me and is forwarding the suggestion to mgmt
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:18 AM   #165
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scorer View Post
devilboy, something wrong with you?? i shouldn't have to email them, it should be listed on there site. Next, ftp sean agreed with me and is forwarding the suggestion to mgmt
OMG they didn't put the link on their website SCAM SCAM
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