I think some of you guys misread my post.

I already use these softwares.

Counting all the software I use, I pay around ~500$ / month just to crush the games. I could keep crushing without saying anything, and afaik its what I am doing. I'm not revealing my screenames or anything. It seems also that most of you guys have no understanding of how these software are beneficial to you. Everybody use them. I mean every top reg. You have to if you want to counter the edge they give.

Why Am i posting then ? Because its the right thing to do. Like the guys posting about nlhe bots on merge, even if he took them for some money, he posted about it.

In 2013, to make money at poker, you had to rely more on software than on actual poker play. I just hate how the game are evolving.

here is my last month graph:



this will be my last post in this thread

if with all i said you dont accept the fact that these softwares give a huge edge, you either just dont know how to use them or you are posting propagande for the regfish

edit: @santacruz, please learn to read the posts correctly, the guy isnt distributing the software: he is staking people to play under the technology he has created. He doesnt even let his stakee play with the technology after the stakes end... He makes it so by taking control of your computer that you have access to his technology only when you are staked by him

come to the dark side youngling ..mua^h^h^h^h^h

ok another and better example is using a calkulator to a math test or just adding numbers in your.

what I'm trying to achieve? guess you missed out whole point of the thread.


sure I could put more effort in my huds, but hey I'm not one of those multitabling cheeseburger stakes kids with heavy autism playing just nlhe on lower stakes 10 hours a day, rest of the world would go nuts and get a regular job. I play mixed games just as much as nlhe and little software for those games. still beatable.

I'm perfectly aware of the guy's convoluted method of distribution; that's why I said he was distributing his software rather than selling it. I don't think that your grasp of the English language is all that good.

You're implying that you win over 13 thousand big blinds a month in order to bolster your credibility. Sorry but posting some chart from who knows where just doesn't cut it. You need to post your screen name so we can independently verify your win rate if you expect to use your winrate as evidence of your opinions. This is 2+2; if you are going to claim that you are crushing the games you are going to need to prove it. This isn't one of those software ads.

So now you say you are a winner winning over 13 thousand big blinds a month using software, but you are tired of paying $500 a month for the software; so you now want to get rid of the software that is allowing you to kill the tables. That's supposed to make sense? And where on Earth are you finding $6,000 worth of software a year?

You're kind of free to play how you like to I guess.
Others prefer to be autistic and play 24 tables with a hud.
Just because it doesn't fit with you not everyone has to play the way you do :P.

Besides, not everyone runs well and might actually depend on high samples to beat the bitch that is variance.
Or are only players allowed who run well over small samples playing 1-2 tables only?

here on 2+2 in the software forums. subscription based access is a hell of a drug.

I was speaking with my fiancee tonight about why my job is not as enjoyable as it used to be.

BTW- she is the reason why i am playing online so much, as we are living in a country where live poker is not an option.

I think that current online poker is more about finding technical ways to generate small mathmatical edges, and some of the "ART" of poker is lost.

While it is certainly true that you always need to keep working hard to improve in any sport ( poker is a mind sport ). I do think some of the appeal of poker has been severely diminished by the need to use software tools just to keep up.

I recently went to the PCA and had a very enjoyable time exploring the advantages of things like table image, tells, reads based on verbal and physical cues, etc......

I understand all too well that online poker does not offer the same experience as live poker, however the need to use these software tools just to stay competitive is just driving the online poker experience even further away from its live predecessor.

In my opinion this is not a good thing for the health of poker.

I have been thinking about this topic.. It seems to me that this is something bad for the games. But I am starting this thread because I would like to see how the pros and cons weigh out if we all make our points. I have a difficult time seeing how this can be a "skill" related to the game of poker. It seems more like a skill that would be used for some internet game, which we are playing the game of poker on the internet, but should we change the way the game was meant to be played just because we are playing online? Please educate me on this topic.

Poker evolves. Nobody needed zoom... it still came...

does zoom give an advantage to certain players?

imo using software to exploit another software has nothing to do with the game of poker

This is a conversation that hasn't really progressed in years. I think most reasonable people realize that a lot of 3rd party software, HUDs included, have some negative effects on the health of online games. That part that a lot of people never seem to get through their heads is that banning 3rd party software and getting rid of 3rd party software are two different things.

Most 3rd party programs that come up in these discussions are basically just fancy text parsers. They look at text in the form of a hand history and they convert that information into a more useful form to the user. The core functions of these programs need only that text, so as long as they have that, they can easily be run anywhere, which means they can also easily be made undetectable if need be. Players can still create their own hand histories even if sites don't make them available, but that is a lot harder to do and can be broken frequently.

There are sites available now where the changes that some people have been screaming for endlessly already exist. On Bovada for instance you can play anonymous/rush style poker and all of these 3rd party tools become impossible.

Having those choices available isn't enough for a lot of people though. They want all sites to adopt what they think are ideal policies so that they can enjoy the benefits of playing on sites with more traffic. The problem with that is that there is a reason that the sites that don't share their ideas are more popular than the ones that do in the first place.

Edit: I didn't realize this was a merged thread about seating scripts. I was answering in the context of the thread that it's now in. Seating scripts are a different category than things like HUDs, note programs, etc. I think seating scripts should, can, will be dealt with by a lot of sites.

Yes seating scripts are a whole different ball game imo, and I am not sure why my thread was merged. Pretty disrespectful to just merge a thread without an explanation....

I only play on stars, and I know its been said in this thread previously but perhaps if they implemented a basic hud for all to use this would somewhat end the debate?

Most rec's/fish wouldn't take notice, I'm sure some wouldn't even understand how to use the info but at least if the option was made available to all then the whole "he uses a hud, its unfair" argument would die.

Don't worry little short sighted sheep. Your precious huds, auto note addons and scripts won't be banned any time soon.

When you will realise that the poker/betting companies objective to make it easier for you to play more tables, more hands and get you better at the game, for instant profit, clashes head on with (what should be) your long term objective of maintaining a "healthy poker ecology", it's going to be too late.

Untill then go back to your rake slave duties by resuming your n* tabling session and reg vs reg absurdity so you cotribute to another successful financial report available for download at the end of the fiscal year.

but how much did you lose?

if huds don't give any advantage than the company that sells huds should be liable for fraud because thats exactly how it is marketed, to give an advantage

We are dealing with an environment where ( for pokerstars at least ) there are almost no players who can win at a signifcant rate.

It has been said better by other in this thread and elsewhere on this forum, but basically in the end almost all the money is going to end up as rake.

This is because the current environment ( including software tools, training sites, how rakeback is designed, etc........) is designed to have the professionals play many many tables at huge volume to make a decent living.

Therefore the ratio of fish to professionals just keeps getting smaller, the fish almost never have winning sessions, the fish quit, and without new fish the game begins to die.

In my opinion here is what would happen if you took away these software tools:

1. Everyone plays less tables ( even people who find workarounds for banned software, because these workarounds will take time).

2. The skill gap between excellent players, good players, and bad players will widen with everyone playing less tables.

3. There will be less money leaving the system in the form of rake.

All this will mean that the best professionals will win as much or more per hour, despite playing less tables ( although variance will go up).

The fish will also have a better experience, because their table will have 2-3 professionals, not 4-5.

Thus the fish will win a little more often, and the entire ecosystem is healthier.

How do you plan on taking them away? The same way that database sharing has been taken away?

Why do you think this is true?

Pretty sure seating scripts are a software aid, unless I've missed something.

Given that we've had dozens of threads on the subject of software that some consider bad for the games, and dozens more that have been derailed on to the topic as well, I felt that keeping the discussion to one thread for a change would be nice.

Sorry, no disrespect was intended - threads are very commonly merged, closed or deleted without an explanation. Unfortunately, time doesn't always allow for volunteer moderators to notify everyone about such things.

you guys may be volunteers but you know some magic bricks of coke fall on your doorsteps once in a while (*cough* ivey league)

^no offense taken, I understand.


Yes seating scripts are a software aid, but the differences imo are:

HUD, hotkeys, tablescanners - publicly advertised and everyone has the same opportunity to purchase or use therefore if you are at a disadvantage it is your own fault or ignorance..

Jesus seat scripts - not publicly advertised (why?) and therefore not everyone has the same opportunity to purchase and use as some players..

There are seating scripts that are publicly advertised.