You guys are fighting the wrong battle. It's not huds you should be concerned with; it's multi-tabling.

If Stars allowed 1 table max, huds would be a non-issue. A player that wins with a hud can beat 1-tabling for the same rate or higher without one. A hud allows a person to manage multiple opponents simultaneously. That's all it does. Remove multiple, simultaneous opponents, and huds are unnecessary.

I think, at least from my perspective, that this thread has had both pro/con HUD discussion and discussion about the health of poker both now and going forward.

Both are worthy topics, as the HUD discussion fits and has many crossovers with the bigger picture for poker.

For myself, I have a new perspective on online poker having played only online for the last 4 months ( Usually I play about 70% live and 30% online most years since 2002 ).

I think this is an important time both for internet poker and the industry as a whole.

We have moved past the boom era of 2002-2011?? and i think enter a very important transitional era as poker starts to become legal again in the USA and expands to the far east.

I think the live poker arena is fairly healthy, although there are many areas that need work ( tournament rake is creeping too high IMO).

Having played a lot of online poker the past 4 months ( plus 3-6 months every year since 2002), I have some concerns.

Obviously Pokerstars dominates the market.

Stars has earned this, with awesome customer service, good marketing, and financial responsability.

But a dominant giant in the market can be very dangerous for consumers.

I feel the model of Pokerstars today ( set up to encourage multitabling for professionals with very small or non-exsistent win rates before rewards programs), is not good for the long term health of poker.

I am not sure what the solution going forward is.

I do know that there are a lot of great minds here on 2 plus 2, and that we are a very large consumer group with a lot of power.

But, the poker community traditionally has had a lot of trouble organizing itself and bridging differences between self interest and the greater good.

ANY IDEAS??

i disagree with you that live poker is healthy. There are to many Casinos popping up all over the country and it is spreading the player base thin. i am only 23 but from what i read back in the day (10+ years) you had 2 destinations in the U.S.A to play poker and that was AC and Las Vegas thats it. and now casinos are mostly just a reg fest with little to no traffic with few exceptions.

All extra software must go

This is strange. No wonder you're getting your ass handed to you. You are a live player trying to play online during the toughest times. The time to have played online was 2002-2006. For myself, I almost played exclusively online until 4/11, when Stars booted us.

Having kept up on my opponents during 07-11, making the switch to live full-time was very easy.


The boom ended in 2006. Then those players trickled into live games. Live games are still good. If you could beat online games during 2010+, you can destroy live games. Really have no idea why you're dicking around in online games when you're predominantly a live player.

No. Live is healthy. More people playing is healthy for the game. 10 years ago you had, AC, NV, CA, AZ, CT, IL, MI, MS, MO, WA and probably missing some like maybe Oklahoma or some ****. AC and NV were for blackjack; California has always dominated poker since the 70's and still does.

Also, pre-boom (2001 and earlier), the games were worse than they are now (relatively speaking), it's just that everyone sucked back then. If you took a player today and put him in a game back in 1998, he would pound everyone into pieces, but that's what happens when anything evolves.

As was back then, you'd look at the mid-stake game running, look at the list of 4 guys waiting and realize that just going home would be more productive. Live is nothing like that today, but online is, and huds and all this **** isn't going to change that. 1-table max is the best solution, but losing players are still going to get cut up.

You guys are looking for a free meal. That ended around 2006; time to work harder than your opponents.

problem from my perspective is that working harder for me means throwing up my coding editor and join the software race. could have done so in the past, refused to do so. it's not that hard to automate the game away bit by bit to get my head free for "decissions that matter". i would not even have to write most of the stuff required from scratch. connecting the components that are already out there is enough for most part and i would not even cross any lines by current rules.

still i refuse to do so, for one simple reason: it would destroy the game for me. just like any other cheat destroys the game you are playing, you will likely never again get used to playing it without cheating.

fun fact on the side: just like with any other piece of software, an average user will not know how much of the job is actually done by the software. the meat sack behind the keyboard will always think there is skill involved in pressing that button ;-)

What does this even mean? You will code your own software that isn't approved by the sites? That's working harder? That sounds like cheating.

If that was slang for using Holdem Manager, then no, you are not cheating. The simple reason is if the site allows it, then it's not cheating, regardless of your ethical disposition. If you don't like the site rules, play elsewhere.

Hey,

I'm a little bit curious about a question here. What percentage of players do you think use any sort of software while playing online poker to help them? This would include everything from a piece of software like Table Ninja which just allows players to play using various key shortcuts, through to HUDs, through to table seating things, through to a piece of software that puts the active table in some particularly convenient location and highlights it?

I'm guessing <40% (real money tables), but since the Stars client reads task manager processes and you know the answer, what's the actual figure?

I don't know the answer.

HUD's or no HUD's you still have to play poker.

I use them as a tool to improve my play.

I'm all for banning huds. But that's just because I don't use them and I enjoy money.

But you'll have to pry table ninja from my cold dead hands.

+1000

This paragraph has z4's name written all over it

Its crazy how everyone on this thread has no idea whats the latest software enables you to do.

I came on this thread earlier and I didnt say its name. Its called NoteCadyAdvantage. Its an addon for note caddy. It creates definition for whatever situation you are in. Then a badge shows up on your hud that tells you what it is +ev to do according to the definitions.

It really guides you to a 3bb/100 winrate without requiring much poker knowledge , you just have to follow the badges.

What does it do if you'r good at the poker ? this:

1 million dollars, just check this out:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...l-box-1393578/

you have really no idea what you are up against

it really makes me laugh when i heard guys thinking that huds = cbet stat

are you still living in 2009 ?

the awakening is gonna be hard.

I suggest you also look at the "Multiaccounting explained" thread of eskabor

There are so many things you all dont know. Basically you are living in the world video coaching has created. But there is a lot more.

If you are looking on 2+2 for answears, you should look again, it has become a leveling war since the death of the partygames

Why am I posting this ? because im fed up to have to pay 500$ every month in order to being able to compete at this game. Im fed up that today to make money at poker, to make very good money (like 2007 poker money), its more about software than playing poker.

the worst thing of all is that you are defending huds thinking its beneficial to you whereas its only beneficial for you against fish because every top reg use an enhanced hud to make +ev decision against every other reg on each street. Just lol.

It's kind of sad what the nerds did to poker. Good post.

So effectively a bot that adjusts?

Bit like the late model cyborg in T3

You are a liar. Have you actually used any of this or did you watch some marketing videos and have now decided to exaggerate 100x everything you saw for the sake of your paranoid delusions?

I'll tell you what. I will give you temporary licenses to everything you need to record you playing a session and then you can prove your allegations. You just need to post it here and if you are even close to right I guarantee you stars will ban it. What do you say?

What is crazy is that you believe people on 2+2 never heard of Notecaddy.

People directly involved with the program are part of this community.

No one is taking you serious because your description of it, and nearly everything else in your posts, is hyperbole at best and BS at worst.

I have an idea.

How about you just buy Notecaddy, twenty table 5/10+, make a half a million dollars a year with its 3bb+ guaranteed profit for people with no poker knowledge, and you wont have to cry about paying $500 a year to win at poker or whatever the hell you were rambling about.

You will be a multimillionaire, and we wont have to read your posts.

We all win.

WELL SAID

This.

It's amazing what lazy people (maybe stupid, or both?) will say, and then you've got a hoard of geniuses tanking -5bb/100 chiming in "good post" or w/e. If current huds can make you crush souls, just crush souls and stfu.

Otherwise take up bowling, or keep playing and get off your lazy ass and work harder than your opponents, but stop whining and play on Bovada or some other site that ignores the basic tenets of poker.

Well, it is a math game. Don't get upset when people who understand math use it to win. Shouldn't have went with the liberal arts degree...

Maybe one day you should take up poker

That's the problem with 3rd party software. It does the work for you so understanding of math is no longer required.

We'll have to compare graphs one day.

But it doesn't. You, and your like, are laboring under a misconception.

Don't you mean compare third party programs

Whichever you prefer. I have graphs for my live play where there is no hud.

Over the years I've seen this type of over hype for poker products, be it books, videos, or software, time and time again. Some in the poker community market their merchandise the same way Tom Vu used to market real estate.

I can't speak specifically for the thread that you linked but I know in the past marketers have not only gotten their friends and associates to plaster favorable testimonials but they've given big discounts to those who would post favorable things. When you see those HM charts, there is no way of telling if the money was won using the techniques described and no way of telling if losing games and rake were deleted in order to falsify the results.

When someone has a piece of software that they claim has earned them a million dollars but they've decided to distribute it, you should be very skeptical. The very best results a piece of software can achieve would be that of a bot. I seriously doubt that any bot is making a million dollars a year. All they are really selling is a plug-in for note caddy. Relying too much on such a plug-in would have all the HUD foibles that have already been mentioned by myself and others earlier in this thread.