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Old 10-19-2016, 07:32 AM   #76
Duncelanas
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
The rake is almost exactly 5% (up to hundreds of a percent point), which has been confirmed both by the network and by my independent calculation.
Ah, thanks for the link! I only viewed the FS page on the Natural8 site, which doesn't have the number.

Quote:
That said, the blind structure in $5 and esp. $1 ones is rather hyper and games don't gather instantly, mildly speaking, so they aren't exactly a gold mine in comparison with other networks' offers. Beatable, but not a gold mine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only difference between the $5s and the $15s is 3 hands extra at 50bb effective, yes?

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Besides, FS is closer to MTSnGs than to other networks' spins in terms of variance because the top payout in FS is lol 10 BIs.
This is true for sure.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:22 AM   #77
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only difference between the $5s and the $15s is 3 hands extra at 50bb effective, yes?
Correct. This difference is still a bit tilting
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Old 10-19-2016, 10:47 AM   #78
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Interview with LotosPoker manager: "Why you are in GG Network?"
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:36 AM   #79
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Thanks for the finding!

There's an interesting statement by the Lotos manager in that article (the translations are mine and loose, the phrases in brackets are my clarifying remarks, the bold font highlights are mine),

Quote:
According to our sources, a couple of unpleasant events related to the refusal of big networks to serve players specifically from Russia will happen in the near future.
These networks are iPoker and the MPN, aren't they?

Party has recently shown its commitment to Russia by allowing its residents to order the GoPlay prepaid Mastercard, and it does maintain a Russian mirror site. 888 is interested in the Russian market according to the same Lotos and also changes Russian mirrors regularly. WPN's CEO Phil Nagy stated when he was a guest on Thrash370's Twitch stream that the WPN is working with secret payment agents in order to enter some black markets (not Israel, however). I think this might include Russia even when it regulates poker.

Winamax.fr and Pokerstars.fr are not networks, but of course I can foresee them pulling out of Russia (there have been some Russians who had made EU bank accounts for the purpose of playing at those two sites).
___________________________________

Another interesting statement by the Lotos manager:

Quote:
When I read the rules of the [GG] network for the first time, I was surprised myself. But in fact, it's not that scary there. Before we started preparing our migration to the GG network, we and our partners had done experiments - sent regulars to play there to make sure that they're not going to be banned, they're going to be allowed to withdraw their money, etc. So we've made sure that regs aren't being hunted on the network. We had discussed this question with the [GG] network management and asked to clarify its stance on winning players.

If you're a blatant bumhunter who only looks to play vs fish with 80/60 stats, then you'll have to hide your essence. But even then, if you play honestly, you'll be allowed to withdraw. However, it's worth noting that such situations [revocation of playing privileges from honest winning players] are rather rare. If your winrate is 4 bb/100 or bigger, then the probability of facing difficulties with the network management is about 5% (this conclusion has been made on the basis of informal interviews).

Last edited by coon74; 10-19-2016 at 12:02 PM. Reason: 2nd quote added
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Old 10-19-2016, 07:04 PM   #80
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

cliff notes? this network is legit? this network ISN'T legit? If it is, ROW or US players? Both? Best skin?
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:33 PM   #81
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Don't think there are any bots, GGNetwork actually has the strictest security I've come across.
If so, the network is rich in Asian 'shark hopefuls' who have severe insomnia - it's 3:33-4:33 AM now in South-East Asia and China but the traffic is over one third of the peak one, with AoF Omaha tables still filled primarily by Asians. Of course it's Saturday/Sunday but even on weekdays, there's still enough action until it's 1-2 AM in China.
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:10 PM   #82
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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If so, the network is rich in Asian 'shark hopefuls' who have severe insomnia - it's 3:33-4:33 AM now in South-East Asia and China but the traffic is over one third of the peak one, with AoF Omaha tables still filled primarily by Asians. Of course it's Saturday/Sunday but even on weekdays, there's still enough action until it's 1-2 AM in China.
russian bots are on a skin that gives asian tags to foreign players
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:58 AM   #83
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I wouldn't pay much attention to the tags/flags that players use, When you create your account you can list any country you like - so there are players saying they hail from random African countries, Antarctica, vatican city, etc.

I've played most stakes and most games, and if there are bots, they're all ridiculously bad, but I'd probably say its the safest site to play on, security/botting/collusion wise.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:28 AM   #84
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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I wouldn't pay much attention to the tags/flags that players use, When you create your account you can list any country you like - so there are players saying they hail from random African countries, Antarctica, vatican city, etc.

I've played most stakes and most games, and if there are bots, they're all ridiculously bad, but I'd probably say its the safest site to play on, security/botting/collusion wise.
let me get this straight, 4bb/100 is the maximum allowed winrate but you feel confident enough to say that the bots are bad when you don't beat soft games for 4bb?

What a clever affiliate you are
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:11 AM   #85
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by botsonparty View Post
a skin that gives asian tags to foreign players
Ah, that makes sense.

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Originally Posted by NutStewie View Post
if there are bots, they're all ridiculously bad
This is my impression too

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Originally Posted by botsonparty View Post
4bb/100 is the maximum allowed winrate
Lolwut?

4 bb/100 was used by the Lotos manager (see my quote above) as a (quite arbitrary) cutoff between winning and breakevenish players. He probably didn't even have access to GG's confidential documents at the time of the test. Idk whether 4 bb/100 is the cutoff used by the network to determine a player who's 'bad for the ecosystem'. Reportedly, much more factors come into play, not just the winrate. If you're sure that the network flags everyone winning at 4 bb/100 (over what sample?) in NLH cash (of course the criteria must be different for other games), then please provide us with a source.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:52 AM   #86
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Anyway all affiliates don't have GG network anymore. Coincidence?
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:59 AM   #87
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Ah, that makes sense.
Doesn't make sense though that an affiliate will say anything to get business?

Like i said before, all affiliates offering GG are not to be trusted.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:01 AM   #88
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Like i said before, all affiliates offering GG are not to be trusted.
There are some big name affiliates still doing this, though , incl. those who're dealing with Lotos and are planning to continue doing so after its migration.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:18 AM   #89
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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There are some big name affiliates still doing this, though , incl. those who're dealing with Lotos and are planning to continue doing so after its migration.
And those big names have a lot of stories happening on these asian sites. The players can't post on forums because they are held hostage.

How can you publicly shame your affiliate when you have 20k+ stuck on a site and getting it 500$ at a time(while paying fees on it)???

A good affiliate will not offer a site known for having superusers and for having stolen a lot of bankrolls in the recent past.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:31 AM   #90
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Is Lotos poker only for russian?
I tried to sign up there on the 888 network and was unable to do so.
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:41 AM   #91
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Yes, Lotos accepts players from CIS countries only.

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Originally Posted by botsonparty View Post
And those big names have a lot of stories happening on these asian sites. The players can't post on forums because they are held hostage.

How can you publicly shame your affiliate when you have 20k+ stuck on a site and getting it 500$ at a time(while paying fees on it)???

A good affiliate will not offer a site known for having superusers and for having stolen a lot of bankrolls in the recent past.
There are indeed risks associated with playing on Asian networks, and it's up to the player to decide whether the game is worth the candle. As we've discussed earlier, the BR usually won't be confiscated, and the slow pace and fees on its withdrawals are minor annoyances that are outweighed by the profitability of the games imo (well, it's easy for me to say this because $500 a month is enough to cover the life expenses where I live).

Normal post-Black-Friday caution (i.e. holding only a small portion of your BR on GG) should be enough.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:14 PM   #92
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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A good affiliate will not offer a site known for having superusers and for having stolen a lot of bankrolls in the recent past.
Links?
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Old 10-28-2016, 04:05 AM   #93
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Is it possible to run a HUD on the GGNetwork?

I have pokertracker4, but they don't support this network..
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Old 10-28-2016, 07:02 AM   #94
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

HUDs and other real-time 'software aids' (and, obviously, the use of datamining services) are banned on this network.

The only allowed statistical tool is the built-in PokerCraft Beta (opened by a button at the bottom right of the lobby).
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:07 AM   #95
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Is anyone actually winning there over large sample? I play ABC style which should work wonders vs these guys, and yet I keep losing and losing. Fish who play every hand keep showing nuts. Most of the big pots I win vs other regs who seem to be running equally bad. I have played 3 million hands during my career so I know what variance means, however I'm now losing over 50k hands vs fishy opposition. Any thoughts?
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Old 11-16-2016, 07:12 AM   #96
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

^Rake is just absurd, I don't know what stake do you play but probably rake cut you at least 8 bb/100 of profit, so it might be the reason. Also I just discovered there's a 3bet pot rake lol
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:24 AM   #97
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
^Rake is just absurd, I don't know what stake do you play but probably rake cut you at least 8 bb/100 of profit, so it might be the reason. Also I just discovered there's a 3bet pot rake lol
Lol wut, 3bet pot rake, what does that mean? Where did you discover that?

At my stake rake is 5% and and cap is 5 usd. Its bit more than standard but not that much imo.

Has anyone looked at this Pokercraft thing? According to that my luck is terrible but I have no idea how they calculate it or is it legit...
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Old 11-16-2016, 09:14 AM   #98
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
^Rake is just absurd, I don't know what stake do you play but probably rake cut you at least 8 bb/100 of profit, so it might be the reason. Also I just discovered there's a 3bet pot rake lol
Indeed, hands that end preflop are raked too, that's why it's advisable not to play NLH cash* if you wish to play on this network, or at least to get into fewer preflop wars with regs and see more multiway flops with fish.

But small stakes PLO (where the flop is seen very often anyway and the rake is 3%) and Fortune Spin (5% rake) are priced adequately, not to mention MTTs that have overlays regularly.

* But mind that I just don't dig the appeal of NLH cash in general, lol.

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Originally Posted by NuTS_for_NiTS View Post
Has anyone looked at this Pokercraft thing? According to that my luck is terrible but I have no idea how they calculate it or is it legit...
I really doubt that the luck indicator works correctly for AoF Omaha but at least the EV line looks correct (just it and the winloss line don't account for the rake - it has to be subtracted manually) and I'm happy to be given it.

Last edited by coon74; 11-16-2016 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:37 AM   #99
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Is anyone actually winning there over large sample? I play ABC style which should work wonders vs these guys, and yet I keep losing and losing. Fish who play every hand keep showing nuts. Most of the big pots I win vs other regs who seem to be running equally bad. I have played 3 million hands during my career so I know what variance means, however I'm now losing over 50k hands vs fishy opposition. Any thoughts?
Like i said, it's filled with house bots and most likely they still have super users after having them before.

The current publicity blitz is just an extra money grab.

Have you noticed how all the people streaming, including pros, are not making any money on it? The rake isnt the reason, ive paid most of my property on sites with 11-12bb in rake and those sites had bots too(not superusing though)

A few vocal guys are going to be making money, its good for the network. But most guys that win in tough games are not going to be long-term winners on that network simply because its bs.

Most of the current blitz is aimed towards russians, that should tell you a lot. Russians are the scum of the poker world. Most scam and cheating comes from there, why would this be any different? Big russian affiliates teaming up with a scummy asian site and screwing their own people.
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Old 11-16-2016, 08:49 PM   #100
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I put a little money on there to test it out. I like HU so I'd sit a table and wait for someone to join. It doesn't take a genius to realize they have to be bots. Really short stacks would constantly join, and with the rake the way it is, it is impossible to beat, especially against short stacks. So they have these bots running round with short stacks filling games and getting games to run, knowing that it only has to be able to play semi-mediocre poker to be able to make more back in rake.
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