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Old 10-12-2016, 02:30 PM   #51
frenchfish
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Thinking more about it, highstakers who win too much too fast may also be suspected of being on the receiving side of a chip dump... at least that's how 888poker likes to motivate its bans.

It's needless to say that very weak fish look like they're on the giving side of a chip dump so playing against them raises reg flags even on those networks that don't ban bumhunting explicitly.

The problem is that dumping accusations occur on a rather random basis while obvious botters and scripters remain unpunished for years. If GG has a strict policy against bumhunting, then it should have a security department strong enough to enforce it universally, not selectively. If it's indeed the case, then I applaud to them, but somehow I don't believe that a relatively unknown and small network can be so proficient at this.

Otherwise, playing there as a reg looks like roulette, with the possible outcomes being a ban without confiscation and a ban with it. However, I believe one can significantly rig the chances in this roulette in his favour if he shows his usefulness to the network, i.e. plays against everyone willing, grinds at more low stake tables instead of fewer high stake ones, clicks on emoticons at the tables often, streams on Twitch, promotes GG in other social media, etc. I don't believe they're willing to punish a reg without a compelling reason when they know he's influential among recreationals (I'm not, unfortunately) and would start making big waves if he were banned.

As the last resort, as I mentioned earlier, knowing one of their sponsored players or endorsed promoters personally must really help have the ban lifted or at least the bankroll returned.
A part for the twitch thing and the promoting, i was that kind of reg , i valued soo much playing there i went as far as playing casino games (lost over1k there!).
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:46 PM   #52
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Note that, in AoF Holdem, the only betting round is preflop, whereas in AoF Omaha, the flop is dealt before the only round of betting.

The jackpot fee (0.1 bb in Holdem and 0.05 bb in Omaha) is taken out of each player's stack at the end of the hand. No additional rake is taken out of the pot in AoF.

The rake in 'normal' (20-100 bb) PLO is 3% uncapped. Regs receive little rakeback because of the PVI system I mentioned in post #27 (I have no idea by how much PVI reduces the nominal rake paid by a reg).
Ye the issue i had with this was where is all that jackpot money going to go? The requirements for winning the jackpot are really strict and you get a tiny % of the pool when you hit a qualifying hand.
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:24 PM   #53
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

The jackpot decreases when players hit straight / royal flushes more often than on average.

I don't know what the initial JP seed was, so I can't say how much of that money has been donated by players.

But the only things about the JP that should concern you are 1) how much you pay into it in each hand, 2) how much you'll win if you hit a straight / royal flush.

It looks as though the EV of the JP share that can be won in Omaha is even slightly better than the JP fee... only slightly because the games are rather tight and a significant % of potential royal flushes don't go to showdown as the pushes aren't called by the opponents.

In Holdem, though, the expected JP share is much larger than the fee. I don't know why the awarded piece of the JP is 4-5 times lower in Holdem than in the corresponding Omaha games with the same JP fee, while the likelihood of hitting a straight flush in Holdem is less than twice bigger than the one of hitting a royal flush in Omaha. Let alone that a higher percentage of potential straight flushes don't reach the showdown in Holdem, just because their owners are more likely to fold them (especially 54s).
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Old 10-14-2016, 02:23 AM   #54
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

BestPoker is moved from Ongame(closed) to GG and look like Lotos poker will move from 888.
http://www.ggnet.com/partner
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:30 AM   #55
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Did you mean Lotos? It's always been on 888, it's an 888 brand.

Edit: I see them now on the GG partner page. That ... can't be right. The site is owned by Cassava/888.

-

The bestpoker move to GG is interesting. GG also announced a recent deal with TAIN that should see more Euro skins join the network.

Re the ongame closure, most skins are going to MPN it seems (redkings, redbet, whitebet, heypoker, scandic).
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:57 AM   #56
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

It's official now http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=17765
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:40 AM   #57
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Well there we go. I wonder who is behind lotos; it's a complete 888 whitelabel, under 888 license and control.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:41 AM   #58
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

GG bans winners, and you can ask pretty directly to their FB support, they replied that they have an algorithm that checks whether a player is good for the poker ecosystem
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:57 AM   #59
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Can they confiscate a player's funds on the sole basis of that obscure PVI algorithm? I don't think even the Philippine regulator, as lax as it is, allows this. GG can surely deny the playing privileges to anyone it wants, but if it were allowed to seize the bankroll of a non-cheater, that would be outrageous.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:19 AM   #60
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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GG bans winners, and you can ask pretty directly to their FB support, they replied that they have an algorithm that checks whether a player is good for the poker ecosystem
I'm sure it's something very complicated like BB/100.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:05 PM   #61
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

@****, write to them, you'll see

@onemoretimes, obv, nothing more than that
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:01 PM   #62
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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@****, write to them, you'll see
I'll be much better off pretending to be a clueless but lucky AoF degen who's multitabling solely to increase the fun, and cashing out before their system is able to discern my true skill. If I ask them upfront, they'll start suspecting me much faster (though of course multitabling and the use of Skrill have raised red flags for them already).

After all, I haven't been banned from any casino yet (except for country regulation reasons, of course), whereas, obviously, I accept only +EV bonuses.

Can you give us a relevant quote from your FB convos with the support (with personal details removed, of course)?

Last edited by coon74; 10-14-2016 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:06 PM   #63
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by zaebumba View Post
BestPoker is moved from Ongame(closed) to GG and look like Lotos poker will move from 888.
http://www.ggnet.com/partner
lol I see pwin with the Bwin logo rofl
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:21 PM   #64
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Can you give us a relevant quote from your FB convos with the support (with personal details removed, of course)?
Right now I can't, basically I'm out of town and don't have FB pass (in order to stay away from it and enjoy the weekends). I'll post it later on if you want.
Anyway if someone is eager to know, they can message them directly, or using some friend account.
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:40 PM   #65
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I need to ask the support something anyway, we'll see how it goes...

But why am I facing so many multitabling regs then? Shouldn't they have been banned long ago (surely, at least some of them are winning)?
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:49 PM   #66
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Ask them, and be direct as I was, they will reply (however I have to bump up the conversation since they didn't reply for 15 minutes)
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:56 PM   #67
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Damn, I'm scared I need to wait for the Monday rakeback and see how big it is relatively to the total fee paid.

Interestingly, the PVI formula for AoF includes the All-In Ratio (the frequency of the player going all-in), and I assume that the higher it is, the more 'recreational' the player is deemed. I shouldn't have big problems with the PVI if so
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Old 10-14-2016, 07:49 PM   #68
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Damn, I'm scared I need to wait for the Monday rakeback and see how big it is relatively to the total fee paid.

Interestingly, the PVI formula for AoF includes the All-In Ratio (the frequency of the player going all-in), and I assume that the higher it is, the more 'recreational' the player is deemed. I shouldn't have big problems with the PVI if so
I think the PVI thing is to do with affiliate like how Microgaming does it. If your scour through the T&C's it says that rakeback is paid according to 'loser takes all' allocation. Which may be the most ridiculous rake method ever.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:02 PM   #69
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

But how is RB calculated for tournaments, Fortune Spin and AoF?

I analysed the loser-take-all method using self-written custom PT4 stats once upon a time - it doesn't decrease regs' rakeback by much, as even a reg loses a ton of pots in each session.

Even without custom stats, in specifically HU play, it's clear that the LTA rake equals twice the weighted contributed rake (that coincides with the dealt rake HU) minus the winner-take-all rake, and it's well-known that the WC and WTA rakes are usually quite close over a large sample, hence LTA = 2*WC-WTA is also close to WC.

Last edited by coon74; 10-14-2016 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:51 AM   #70
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

SekaBet added GG
http://sekabet100.com/tr/Poker/Mainindex
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:00 AM   #71
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Well there we go. I wonder who is behind lotos; it's a complete 888 whitelabel, under 888 license and control.
It's always funny when people are so confident and wrong at the same time
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:18 AM   #72
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Congratulations on your first post on 2+2 after almost 9 () years of lurking, BadHopes

Let me explain what Hood meant by 'a complete whitelabel'.

Lotos is a separate company that has a limited right to offer its own promotions (so limited that it's been forced to move to another network to get more freedom*), but it's a whitelabel in the sense that player accounts and security are so far governed by the 888 network management (i.e. Cassava). Players can use Lotos's first deposit bonus even if they've already used the one of 888poker, which is not the case for 888poker's official 'skins' like Lucky Ace Poker - this indicates that Lotos is not a subsidiary of 888 but just its whitelabel.

* The Lotos rep on the forum of GipsyTeam (one of the two biggest Russian affiliates) has told that GG has granted Lotos with 'exclusivity' in marketing to Russian-speaking countries, in the sense that other GG skins aren't going to market actively to these countries (although they're still going to serve players from there). On the other hand, 888 is actively interested in the Russian market and was essentially driving Lotos out of it, by not allowing Lotos to have better promotions than the flagship 888 skin.

Last edited by coon74; 10-18-2016 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:48 AM   #73
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Hey c00n, any idea about the effective rake on the fortune spins? Seems like the rake from the games is exclusively in incomplete card sets (or I'm severely misunderstanding something)? Also, any plans for SnGs on this network!?
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:32 AM   #74
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Originally Posted by NINzent View Post
I played there in 2014 and I am a 100% certain that there are superusers.

They are (or were) all chinese and already suspiciously lose preflop and minraising your cbets if you didn't have anything a lot of times.
But here are some calldowns that they made (note: all regs that played a lot and where winning players):

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688398
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688399
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688401

And those are hands from another non chinese reg that contacted me via Skype who was sure it's rigged too:

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688422
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688423

Again villains were chinese regulars in the games and apperently winning players

LOL - Cheating confirmed.
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:56 PM   #75
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Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

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Hey c00n, any idea about the effective rake on the fortune spins? Seems like the rake from the games is exclusively in incomplete card sets (or I'm severely misunderstanding something)? Also, any plans for SnGs on this network!?
The rake is almost exactly 5% (up to hundreds of a percent point), which has been confirmed both by the network and by my independent calculation.

One needs to receive 28.29 cookies on average to get a 10 BI prize; in other words, that happens once in 56.58 games on average.

That said, the blind structure in $5 and esp. $1 ones is rather hyper and games don't gather instantly, mildly speaking, so they aren't exactly a gold mine in comparison with other networks' offers. Beatable, but not a gold mine.

There's no room for SnGs on the network yet because even the Fortune Spin traffic is scarce ($5-15 ones don't run at all outside Chinese evening peak hours).

Besides, FS is closer to MTSnGs than to other networks' spins in terms of variance because the top payout in FS is lol 10 BIs.

Last edited by coon74; 10-18-2016 at 01:08 PM.
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