Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Internet Poker Discussions of Internet poker venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2016, 08:02 PM   #26
theonepunter
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 361
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Played on the site for a bit, games are soft (easily beat the rake if competent). It seems the GGNET aren't banning winners per say it's more the way they act at the table. If you are sitting out and bum hunting then your going to way more likely to get banned. However if you start tables and generally stay at them then there's nothing really to worry about.
theonepunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2016, 08:20 PM   #27
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Well, I've noticed that the legendary ChicagoJoey is promoting the site now, so I hope that if some trouble happens to me there, he'll do his best to rescue me

Besides, as the network calculates rakeback according to a secret formula known as PVI (Player Value Index, similar to iPoker's Real Player Value but based on more variables) and tells affiliated players their PVI rake, we can judge quite accurately whether the network is happy with our presence, by the ratio of the PVI to the actual rake (the higher - the less dangerous).

Last edited by coon74; 10-08-2016 at 08:28 PM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2016, 09:01 PM   #28
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Well, I've noticed that the legendary ChicagoJoey is promoting the site now
To be precise, he's not sponsored by N8 but made a few supportive comments a month ago to their timeline post about the Singapore Poker Championship:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Ingram
I am ready to move to China and become Natural8 player and marry Chinese woman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katrina Lim
Ffs! Listen Backstreet Boy, Joey! China has nuthin to do with Singapore!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Ingram
I need to learn about Asia more before I make this leap then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Ingram
Me going to this tournament in Singapore also has nothing to do with me moving to China
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Ingram
I will do what I have to do for Natural8! I will bring the people a podcast they deserve
And indeed, 10 days ago, the first episode of his new PLO Questions podcast was reposted on the N8 timeline, likely with his permission.

Last edited by coon74; 10-08-2016 at 09:06 PM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 11:23 AM   #29
NINzent
centurion
 
NINzent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 183
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

I played there in 2014 and I am a 100% certain that there are superusers.

They are (or were) all chinese and already suspiciously lose preflop and minraising your cbets if you didn't have anything a lot of times.
But here are some calldowns that they made (note: all regs that played a lot and where winning players):

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688398
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688399
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688401

And those are hands from another non chinese reg that contacted me via Skype who was sure it's rigged too:

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688422
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688423

Again villains were chinese regulars in the games and apperently winning players
NINzent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 11:42 AM   #30
TimM846
Pooh-Bah
 
TimM846's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: betting kk into trup qq
Posts: 4,808
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

rofl you're 100% certain there are superusers because you got called down by top pair 3 times
TimM846 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #31
botsonparty
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 557
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM846 View Post
rofl you're 100% certain there are superusers because you got called down by top pair 3 times
i played there around the same time he did, there were a lot of chinese reg playing from 25 vpip to 12 vpip in 6max but all of them raised a2-a9o utg and would checkraise shove Axx flops with a 100% frequency against each others.

When they were playing against me or my friends, they would only show such aggression with hands better than mine. I and a few friends each lost 40+bi, never winning at showdown vs the chinese regs that all had different vpip/pfr but played the same way postflop. Just the fact that all nit regs had a2o in their utg open range is enough for me to be convinced.
botsonparty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 11:58 AM   #32
NINzent
centurion
 
NINzent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 183
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM846 View Post
rofl you're 100% certain there are superusers because you got called down by top pair 3 times

Yeah JT hand maybe, he had ridic nitty stats afaik (it was more than 2 years ago)
Other two hands are face up superuser bet/calls and you're a ****ing retard who didn't even really check them out

Unfortunately I don't have any more stuff, but it was very obvious and I warned everyone, I did my duty, if you want to play there then please, PLEASE go ahead
NINzent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 01:56 PM   #33
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Though I don't play NL cash, my impression is that honest Chinese fish can easily make such plays. More proofs of superusership are needed to convince me.

And I don't think they'd run the 'Run up $100 to $10K on Twitch' promotion if their intention was to seat superusers into streamers' games. After all, it's in their best interest to allow an adequate number streamers to win for the sake of publicity. Or do you think they tune the software not to show the streamers' cards to the superusers but to show all other players' cards?

Anyway, it looks like it suffices to stream in order to be immune to the superusers

Last edited by coon74; 10-09-2016 at 02:09 PM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 02:13 PM   #34
botsonparty
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 557
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Though I don't play NL cash, my impression is that honest Chinese fish can easily make such plays. More proofs of superusership are needed to convince me.

And I don't think they'd run the 'Run up $100 to $10K on Twitch' promotion if their intention was to seat superusers into streamers' games. After all, it's in their best interest to allow an adequate number streamers to win for the sake of publicity. Or do you think they tune the software not to show the streamers' cards to the superusers but to show all other players' cards?
thats the whole strategy and it works against every wannabe intellectuals.

They lost a lot of customers when their superusing was at peak, also had skins steal money.
After that they decided to tone it down and simply take out the money of fish and regs at a more reasonable pace through their superusing accounts/bots.

Now there's in a good influx of player as its not very obvious that you are being cheated. Some players are cheated to death and will just lose forever and some will win and bring their friends around. These publicity stunts bring in confidence. They work hard on making their network look legit, which is what anyone with a couple brain cells would do. Steal a bit everyday instead of doing the dumb thing like UB.

Couple years ago, it was a total joke. I lost 60~bi at 6max 100-400 playing massive Chinese fish and the worst regs. That was over barely 60k hands
I have never had bigger than a 20~bi downswing in 9 years other than the 60bi downswing on that site. My showdown line never went above 0.
botsonparty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 02:28 PM   #35
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by botsonparty View Post
Some players are cheated to death and will just lose forever and some will win and bring their friends around. These publicity stunts bring in confidence. They work hard on making their network look legit, which is what anyone with a couple brain cells would do. Steal a bit everyday instead of doing the dumb thing like UB.
Other poker sites achieve almost the same result by means of collecting rake instead of deploying superusers... the former way (raking and giving hardly any rakeback) is more honest but it takes at least as much money out of the poker ecosystem.

Or wait, maybe some decent GG network regs are losing exactly because of the high rake. And besides, swings are necessarily bigger when playing vs loose-aggro opponents, so a 60 BI downswing that happened once in 9 years doesn't surprise me that much - it could have occurred at pretty any soft site at some point in a long career.

And once again, if there were a way to convince them to rig the game in my favour, such as streaming, I wouldn't shy away from the opportunity.

Last edited by coon74; 10-09-2016 at 02:33 PM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 03:45 PM   #36
6471849653
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 1,587
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Maybe they put up a show, maybe they like ax and tp, but u know better now.
6471849653 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 05:47 PM   #37
botsonparty
banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 557
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

it was 3-4 years ago not 9 years ago. Honest affiliates will not deal with GG because they are scammy.

I have played all the ****ty sites wth massive rake and have never had that kind of impossible run, i even beat dollaro(80% bots 10% regs 10% whales) for 4bb at 100-200nl with 13bb/100 rake until 2015 so no its not the lack of experience and the high rake.
botsonparty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 06:25 PM   #38
foppaGG
newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

botsonparty are you the ...|... (or what ever his screenname was) dude? You sound exactly like him. xDD
foppaGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2016, 11:06 PM   #39
U shove i call
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,041
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by NINzent View Post
I played there in 2014 and I am a 100% certain that there are superusers.

They are (or were) all chinese and already suspiciously lose preflop and minraising your cbets if you didn't have anything a lot of times.
But here are some calldowns that they made (note: all regs that played a lot and where winning players):

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688398
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688399
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688401

And those are hands from another non chinese reg that contacted me via Skype who was sure it's rigged too:

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688422
http://www.pokerhand.org/?6688423

Again villains were chinese regulars in the games and apperently winning players
HAHAHAH ye sick proof here.
U shove i call is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 05:08 AM   #40
MacauChris
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Macau
Posts: 158
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

- 6 person max tables to encourage action,
- only Neteller is avail to outside of China, CC's were accepted until about a month ago (too many chargebacks)
- many deposit options for those in Asia region. I really like the ability to use WeChat Pay to deposit as it is extremely convenient for me.
- Tons of skins contributing to liquidity of network.
- Players active range from 700 - highest point i've seen personally to be 1,800. Time
- no Mac iOS client, (iphone is okay)
- no tournament avail on phone
- customer support varies depending on which skin you sign up with
- freerolls available to offline tournaments
MacauChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 12:52 AM   #41
TheMVP
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 468
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Much PLO action?
TheMVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 06:33 AM   #42
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Download the client and rail the lobby yourself, it's possible without creating an account...

Right now (it's a peak hour - an Asian evening):



I reckon, the 'Flop' stat means how often the flop is opened, not how often a player sees the flop on average.

The 20-100 bb buy-in range is seriously tilting.

I assume you meant regular PLO; here's the all-in-or-fold (AoF) jackpot lobby in case you're interested ('H' means Holdem, 'O' denotes Omaha).



Note that the only possible buy-in amount is 8 bb for AoF Holdem and 4 bb for AoF Omaha.

Last edited by coon74; 10-11-2016 at 06:59 AM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 07:20 AM   #43
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Note that, in AoF Holdem, the only betting round is preflop, whereas in AoF Omaha, the flop is dealt before the only round of betting.

The jackpot fee (0.1 bb in Holdem and 0.05 bb in Omaha) is taken out of each player's stack at the end of the hand. No additional rake is taken out of the pot in AoF.

The rake in 'normal' (20-100 bb) PLO is 3% uncapped. Regs receive little rakeback because of the PVI system I mentioned in post #27 (I have no idea by how much PVI reduces the nominal rake paid by a reg).

Last edited by coon74; 10-11-2016 at 07:26 AM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 07:50 AM   #44
frenchfish
old hand
 
frenchfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monaco
Posts: 1,365
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by theonepunter View Post
Played on the site for a bit, games are soft (easily beat the rake if competent). It seems the GGNET aren't banning winners per say it's more the way they act at the table. If you are sitting out and bum hunting then your going to way more likely to get banned. However if you start tables and generally stay at them then there's nothing really to worry about.
This is how they justify banning your account and even suspend your bankroll. But myself and poker friends(i found out later) suffered the same faith even thought we actually played verry ethically (if thats a thing..)

I went as far as not table selecting and never sit out since i valued playing on this site and i didn t want to risk getting banned. Despite what my affiliator said (same thing you are saying) it resulted of me getting kicked out after winning 5k. One of my firnd won 10K in HS PLO in a day, and was banned the next morning.

They actually verry open about it when you read term and conditions, (more than affiliators who want you to sign with them obvously and probably tell you 1/2 the truth more or less depending on their integrity)

here are the term and condition , article 1 (poker ecology) is pretty explicit:
http://www.ggnet.com/copy-of-security-integrity-policy
frenchfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 08:29 AM   #45
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Did you and the friend get your funds upon the bans?

Actually, the T&C of probably every poker site state that they reserve the right to ban you at their sole discretion, so the trust boils down to how they enforce the rules in reality.

And they do acknowledge that poker is a game of skill.

Perhaps HS players are indeed in bigger danger than microstake ones, as they're more likely to win big fast.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 09:14 AM   #46
frenchfish
old hand
 
frenchfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monaco
Posts: 1,365
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Did you and the friend get your funds upon the bans?

Actually, the T&C of probably every poker site state that they reserve the right to ban you at their sole discretion, so the trust boils down to how they enforce the rules in reality.

And they do acknowledge that poker is a game of skill.

Perhaps HS players are indeed in bigger danger than microstake ones, as they're more likely to win big fast.
Yes we did, i heard of people who didn t have such a luck.

I dsagree, not every site are as explicit concerning poker ecosystem and what they call predatory behavior (aka winning).
frenchfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 09:22 AM   #47
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

It doesn't look like all kinds of winning tactics are deemed 'predatory' enough to earn a permaban. E.g. ratholing and table blocking result in a mere 30-day suspension from the network as per clauses 11-12 of the T&C, with no permaban mentioned.

So I think their definition of 'predatory behavior' is rather blurry and can only be found out from concrete precedents only

Were you playing on other networks alongside GGN tables? Did you have any 3rd party software running while playing on the GGN?

Last edited by coon74; 10-11-2016 at 09:32 AM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 10:02 AM   #48
frenchfish
old hand
 
frenchfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monaco
Posts: 1,365
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
It doesn't look like all kinds of winning tactics are deemed 'predatory' enough to earn a permaban. E.g. ratholing and table blocking result in a mere 30-day suspension from the network as per clauses 11-12 of the T&C, with no permaban mentioned.

So I think their definition of 'predatory behavior' is rather blurry and can only be found out from concrete precedents only

Were you playing on other networks alongside GGN tables? Did you have any 3rd party software running while playing on the GGN?
Try for yourself m8

As far as i know, there are no third party software for the gg network yet (i ve searched for it)
Yes i did play other poker sites from time to time .

But trust me, the only reason for getting banned was winning too much too quickly. Had opened chat with a couple of affiliator and they are well aware of it.

As far as the bots go and the weird play, i have mix feelings but it would not surprise me at all.

It s a shame because overall the software is pretty good, the field is fishy and traffic is decent, i also like some feature like the "run it 3 times". But as a wise men once told me; when it s too good to be true, it probably is...
frenchfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 11:20 PM   #49
lvanhoe
old hand
 
lvanhoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,339
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

So they effectively built the same rake trap stars did, with the only exception being that they actively ban winning players. I guess gg to them.
lvanhoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 09:11 AM   #50
coon74
self-banned
 
coon74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: preparing to have the last laugh
Posts: 9,997
Re: GGNetwork: Natural8, etc

Thinking more about it, highstakers who win too much too fast may also be suspected of being on the receiving side of a chip dump... at least that's how 888poker likes to motivate its bans.

It's needless to say that very weak fish look like they're on the giving side of a chip dump so playing against them raises reg flags even on those networks that don't ban bumhunting explicitly.

The problem is that dumping accusations occur on a rather random basis while obvious botters and scripters remain unpunished for years. If GG has a strict policy against bumhunting, then it should have a security department strong enough to enforce it universally, not selectively. If it's indeed the case, then I applaud to them, but somehow I don't believe that a relatively unknown and small network can be so proficient at this.

Otherwise, playing there as a reg looks like roulette, with the possible outcomes being a ban without confiscation and a ban with it. However, I believe one can significantly rig the chances in this roulette in his favour if he shows his usefulness to the network, i.e. plays against everyone willing, grinds at more low stake tables instead of fewer high stake ones, clicks on emoticons at the tables often, streams on Twitch, promotes GG in other social media, etc. I don't believe they're willing to punish a reg without a compelling reason when they know he's influential among recreationals (I'm not, unfortunately) and would start making big waves if he were banned.

As the last resort, as I mentioned earlier, knowing one of their sponsored players or endorsed promoters personally must really help have the ban lifted or at least the bankroll returned.

Last edited by coon74; 10-12-2016 at 09:27 AM.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online