sillysal, I see you have authorised Mike to release as much info as he sees fit. Now I am not quite sure what your motives are for starting this 2nd thread - are you still persuing FTP in order to get a refund? I thought you had given up on that but maybe I misunderstood earlier posts from you.

You have taken the time to set up a web site and posted videos, pictures, etc which are very pleasing on the eye but nothing much else. Why not incorporate on your site a full, unedited version of your online poker career culminating in the confiscation of your money. Put every email (without your strategies) between you, Mike Haven, FTP and any other relevent parties. Post the "proof" and then we can have a sensible debate with everybody knowing the full facts. If anybody has any other information that you do not have put an open invitation on here for people (e.g. Mike H, FTP, expert witnesses) to let that be known.

I think it unfair to keep placing the onus on Mike H - he has made his thoughts on this fairly clear.

i must have missed the part where she had roommates that were botting previously. Can someone link that?


One thing that i did find odd though was that an ex boyfriend would just let you keep an account with 38k on it after you two broke up and he moved out. Or did you use his account without his permission?

Another thing I find odd is that there seems to be a few HU limit hold em experts that live close to cardrooms that no one seems to know, and they are mostly female.

What is your ex boyfriend's name? Surely he isn't one of those mysterious experts that has never met anyone else also is he?

Rek - Silly was accused of being a bot on Stars just as much as she was on FT I thought.
Not just by CrazyMike but by other too I believe.

Her video and Stars' claim that she DEFINITELY has never used a bot there, which I give a certain amount of credit to, tend to prove that at least SOME of her live-play can come off as looking bot-like. Otherwise she would not have been accused of running a bot on Stars as well.

No, it doesn't really prove anything. It doesn't mean that FT didn't actually catch her running a bot on their site..and their site only.
But it does prove that some of the people accusing her of being a bot in certain instances were wrong. Because, according to Stars, she was NEVER a bot on there.


I do recall the part that Silly mentioned about Mike saying that he sent back some data to FT because he found some errors in it.
I didn't know that it was never heard from again. I don't know if Silly mentioned the fact that it never came up again or not. If she didn't mention it again until now I don't know why she held onto that little tid-bit for so long unless there really was lawyer involvement at that point telling her to shut her trap for the time-being or something like that.


I feel bad putting so much of this on Mike Haven. I like Mike. I respect his opinion. But I honestly don't know what he's basing his opinion on because I haven't seen any of the stuff that FT or Silly sent to him.
Obviously if I think there is still a chance that Silly is innocent then I am also saying that I think there is a chance that Mike's conclusion may have been off. Just because I like and/or respect the guy doesn't mean I think he's incapable of ever making an error....contrary to what those in the ATF forum would have to say about his awesomeness and his Super-Mod powers.
Please don't ban me for saying that Mike!!

But I do take your point and I do know that Mike wouldn't just casually throw around claims that FT has done enough to convince him without truly being convinced himself so I'm not exactly sure where I stand on all this or even what I think the chances of sillysal never having a bot really are.

But I think there's enough suspicious stuff remaining, including perhaps FT's unwillingness to let her potentially prove that her live-play can end up resulting in a false-positive or even to freaking talk to her which I don't know if they have done or not.


I too am frustrated by some of sillysal's evasiveness on certain Q's. So I'm not sure what to make of that either.
Everybody gets some crazy idea about every little thing she says and goes nutso trying to turn it into something and asks her a million Q's. So I understand her reluctance to want to address every single stupid thing out there. But I think she has been too evasive for her own good and it does end up coming off as suspicious to me as well.

So I'm hardly as much in the camp of "definitely not a bot" as many probably believe.
But I think there's still enough from FT's part to raise an eyebrow at, admittedly without knowing everything that they did or didn't do, that I'm still willing to keep an open-mind.

To be honest this was the part that I didn't understand and has left a sliver of doubt in my mind. Were FTP scared she would turn up and play exactly like the supposed bot?

Hi SillySal

You probably have all our long past e-mails much closer to hand than I do.

Please e-mail me them in two lots - first the originals; and then another duplicate lot with your required exceptions deleted, and with the deletions marked clearly by " *Text Deleted* ".

I wasn't allowed by FTP to show the spreadsheet to you or anyone else. Please contact them to e-mail me their permission to publish it. Otherwise, I regret I cannot. (Having said that, it was only one set of figures, sent before others, and the error may have been an insignificant clerical error. I do not think it should be dramatised as being more important than it was if they will not give their permission to show some of the data they check when looking at possible bots.)

Thank you.





.

Hi Mike,
If sillysal gave you permission to share more of your thoughts about what she did and your general thoughts on this matter I would certainly be interested in hearing.
Right now it appears she only gives you permission to post all your e-mails and PM's from your back-and-forh exchange. I'm not sure whether that would essentially end up being the same thing or not.

I agree that SillySal should be able to do some of this herself. But it is also possible that she didn't save some of the PM's that she had sent to you since the forums at that time didn't have that setting on by default I don't think.
Sorry for throwing you into the middle of all this but you're the guy who both parties were talking to and it's just something that I'm kind of curious about.

SillySal seems determined still to prove her innocence but almost seems like she just doesn't know what it is exactly that she should be doing.
So I'm just trying to give her some suggestions of how she might help 'prove' her case a bit better than just by saying, "Here's some Stars video of me. Here's a pic of me with the guy who stole my money" etc etc.

Mrgatorade seems like a huge douche.

I thought PMs were lost during the transfer from vbb?

It's possible she saved them in notepad or something I guess.

Almost all, if not all, of our correspondence was by e-mail.

I will throw in a taster that has always niggled me a bit.

I negotiated a deal with SillySal where she would fly to the world-expert's offices, at entirely her own cost for flights and accommodation, paying him a considerable and correct professional fee, with no pre-guarantees, to play in front of him and his staff for two or three days.

The expert declined the offer I put to him, as he did not think that whatever happened over those days could counteract his findings that she had already used a bot on FTP, because of the reasons I have stated in earlier posts in this thread.

I am not sure that anyone but SillySal, the expert and I know that this potential deal was offered and declined, until now.

(This is from memory, so some minor facts may be incorrect.)

PMs were not lost.

Go to Forum Archives, (see bottom left of this page), to see yours.

Not sure if we knew exactly that but we knew something along those lines. This was wrong of them not so see her and let her play. It certainly begs the question why?

Yeah, I know that something like this was offered and declined by FT because they weren't interested and didn't think it was necessary. But if she was willing to pay for the whole thing then I think the time they would spend looking into her further play shouldn't be that big a deal and they should be willing to go along with that.
From their perspective this is all under the idea of "just in case it's possible that we screwed up. We REALLY don't think we did and we REALLY think we're just entertaining a criminal. But just in case....."


And that type of thing is what I might have had in the back of my mind when I started making all these posts about "Let her play for them and prove that a false-positive is at least POSSIBLE."

So via your negotiations evidently SillySal was actually willing to do this.
I imagine that any reluctance on her part to do it might have been out of a belief that she shouldn't have to pay a dime to get her own money back which I entirely understand. But the fact that she was indeed willing to do this I find interesting.
The fact that FT said, "Forget it. Just stay away" is also interesting.

Someone remind me:
Did anyone report that they have received redistributed funds from FT from their previous play with pokergirl_z or greggo777?
If FT hasn't distributed any of those funds to their supposedly 'swindled' customers then I find that interesting also.

LOL awsome

I just checked the old thread, and see I did write the following when all the facts were fresh in my mind:


"For the record, owing to your continued protestations that you are innocent and that there must be a huge error in FTP's primary records of your play, you know that I did my utmost to persuade the consultant and his team to allow you to travel to his offices to meet you and watch you play live for two days, to compare actions, timings and whatever else they might want to record, entirely at your own cost for travel and all fees, (which you agreed), but unfortunately the consultant felt that there was no point in accepting your offer. He is certain that as each of the various methods they used to determine bot-play indicated bot-play to such a high degree that there is absolutely no possibility, statistically-speaking, that you were not using a bot during the time you played at FTP."