No the law suit is pretty interesting but some posts in this thread are pure speculation and might turn away new players and strengthen the opposition against online poker. They might assume that bots written by Chris Ferguson will take your money if you play online and if you win FTP will freeze the money anyway. But I guess its not a big deal since Internet Gambling is the "Poker is Rigged" capital of 2+2.

One, actually two words, "severance payment".
Greed, smugness, jerk, respect - underestimated?
Witness for the defense?

Opps, see my related thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...95/index7.html

Hi Larry, make sure Bill and Rob read my thread as well.

One to ThePig too.

I love live poker

I missed this retort. I wanted to tell you and any new poker players to the net, that your wrong. Dead wrong. It'll actually have the opposite effect. It'll promote legalization and regulation to us poker players...

FTP's Bot contractor ITT.

FTP closed my account with $505 and left my account with ZERO BALANCE open!
referring to their multiple account policy. So why they didn't close the other account with no balance or transferred the balance to my other account? that's cheating,

Negative. You cheated. This is poker, two wrongs make a right here...You get what you deserve and your lucky your still allowed to play there,,,

You need to stop spamming every thread with this nonsense. It's pretty selfish.

Cheating is using the software like poker tracker and every datamining of this kind against an opponent. Knowing someone who raise x% of time fold % time in position knowing all those number is having an unfair edge against someone, now thats cheating. Some site are allowing players to change their name every x number of time because of all the cheaters having software that knows all your tendencies before even playing 1 hands with u, now thats cheating. The ones cheating are not the one that want their plays keep secret and not analyse by some computer pros but the ones cheating are the ones that uses all those software to gain an unfair advantage against their opponents and these same people encourage poker site to not allowed people to multiaccount because they will then now lose that unfair advantage knowing every tendencies of their opponent and all the statistic.
Poker site have to do something against the real cheater and not the one that are trying to keep their name anonymous. If u could change your name every session why would player A would have more advantage then player B.
Cheaters are crying because now they would have to play everyone and plz stop saying that site can do what ever they want with our money because its against their rulez. I never have been my money confiscated in a casino because I was wearing a hat and they dont recognize me. Sorry if my english is bad, I do my best.

Latest filings on Pacer.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/uwtzmyzyn0k/fac.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ubydwzmwvum/main.pdf

edit:

spade, or anyone. can you please post the full pdf's?


i did not realize it was 40 pages. any chance for some cliff's? anyone?

tia

taken out of context this thread contains one of the best sentences ever imo.
but I'm not telling which one.

you are going to make us scrutinize over 160 posts? give some sort of hint please.

As I said in the other thread you posted in, why would they close the first account? The second account is the one that broke the rules, so it's the one they closed. We've had 346,735 threads (or somewhere thereabouts) with situations exactly like yours, and if it happened as you described, they'll eventually transfer the money back to your first account.

Wrong. Totally and completely wrong.

If the site allows the software, how is using it cheating? You may not like it, but it's the site that allows it. And I would think preventing people from hiding their identity from other players is fairly low on the list (actually it's probably not even on the list) of reasons sites don't allow multi-accounting. They don't allow it because of collusion, fraud, bonus abuse, etc, etc.

If you don't like people using things like HUDs and trackers, play on a site like Cake that doesn't allow HUDs and lets you change your name on a regular basis.

very sorry for all, I overreacted with my FTP issue due to the problems I experienced in the past at other sites. They said they will transfer my money to my primary account. I will play more...

I think it's 20, I don't know why there were two different docs of the Amended Complaint but they look the same. They added some more causes of action and added Pocket Kings as a defendant. Basically throwing in the kitchen sink.

I dont agree with you, what you saying is because you dont broke the site rules, you are not cheating, what if now poker site would allow poker bot would you say the same. I think cheating is by gaining an unfair advantage on your opponents and all those datamining program are doing it. Some players are just trying to hide from those programs and they are the ones that we blame and confiscated theirs funds. From what I have seen, the vast majority of the time poker site transfer them back their money at least that is correct. What is a difference between a player that raise 35% because he knows that his opponent will fold 25% of the time due to his datamining agasint a player he has never play in his whole life then an automatic program that will do the same. The only difference is that YOU are the one clicking on the mouse, we are step by step closer to poker bot. That is an unfair advantage.

your thought processes boggle my mind.

Datamining at a table where you are not an active player for the purpose of profiling, is against the rules at every poker site in the world. Datamining player stats while you are playing is legal at most sites, and is analogous to just taking very good notes on your opponents.

I mention "for the purpose of profiling" since the websites who do commericial datamining just for the purpose of win/loss records (highstakesdb etc), are actually supported or tacitly approved by some poker sites. But that isn't the same as player profiling.

You can always keep an eye on this thread, I do, and I'm not the only one.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45.../#post15042372

Right, by definition if you aren't breaking the rules, you aren't cheating. When you're playing a game, cheating is breaking the rules. If you aren't breaking the rules, then you aren't cheating. Seems pretty simple to me.

If a site allowed poker bots within their rules, then no, it wouldn't be cheating. And I probably wouldn't play there.

Also, people using HUDs don't have an unfair advantage against you. You can get the same HUD if you like.

As for datamining, that is against the rules at many sites, and so yes, that would be cheating in those cases.

How is that different than the originally filed documents? Was there any action already, like response from FTP, etc. ...?

They expanded the original complaint, demanded a jury trial, and added some more causes of action, and added Pocket Kings as a defendant. No response has been filed yet. Here's the history from when it was moved to federal court:

Docket History

1 Filed: 10/30/2009 Entered: 11/03/2009 Notice of Removal
Docket Text: NOTICE OF REMOVAL from Superior Court State of CA County of Los Angeles, case number BC423036 with CONFORMED copy of summons and complaint. Case assigned to Judge Mariana R. Pfaelzer, Discovery to Magistrate Judge Alicia G. Rosenberg. (Filing fee $ 350 PAID ), filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer.(car) (Additional attachment(s) added on 11/5/2009: # (1) Exhibit, # (2) Notice of Assignment, # (3) Civil Cover Sheet) (ds).

2 Filed: 10/30/2009 Entered: 11/03/2009 Certificate/Notice of Interested Parties
Docket Text: CERTIFICATION of Interested Parties filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer (car) (ds).

3 Filed: 10/30/2009 Entered: 11/03/2009 Statement
Docket Text: DISCLOSURE STATEMENT filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer (car) (ds).

4 Filed: 10/30/2009 Entered: 11/03/2009 Notice of Filing Fee Due (PHV)
Docket Text: NOTICE OF FILING FEE DUE on Pro Hac Vice Application mailed to attorney Jeffrey G. Weill for Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. Your Pro Hac Vice application has not been received by the court. Please return your completed Application of Non-Resident Attorney to Appear, form G-64, or a copy of the Notice of Electronic filing of your application and the $185.00 fee and this notice immediately. Out-of-state federal government attorneys who are not employed by the U.S. Department of Justice are required to file a Pro Hac Vice application; no filing fee is required. (car)

5 Filed & Entered: 11/03/2009 First Stipulation Extending Time to Answer (30 days or less)
Docket Text: FIRST STIPULATION Extending Time to Answer the complaint as to Raymond Bitar answer now due 12/7/2009; Phillip Gordon answer now due 12/7/2009; Andy Bloch answer now due 12/7/2009; Phil Ivey answer now due 12/7/2009; Perry Friedman answer now due 12/7/2009; John Juanda answer now due 12/7/2009; Erik Lindgren answer now due 12/7/2009; Erik Seidel answer now due 12/7/2009; Michael Matusow answer now due 12/7/2009; Allen Cunningham answer now due 12/7/2009; Gus Hansen answer now due 12/7/2009; Patrik Antonius answer now due 12/7/2009; Tiltware LLC answer now due 12/7/2009; Chris Ferguson answer now due 12/7/2009; Howard Lederer answer now due 12/7/2009, filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar; Phillip Gordon; Andy Bloch; Phil Ivey; Perry Friedman; John Juanda; Erik Lindgren; Erik Seidel; Michael Matusow; Allen Cunningham; Gus Hansen; Patrik Antonius; Tiltware LLC; Chris Ferguson; Howard Lederer.(Dooley, Nathan)

6 Filed & Entered: 11/05/2009 Returning Case for Reassignment w/i division (CV 89)
Docket Text: ORDER RETURNING CASE FOR REASSIGNMENT by Judge Mariana R. Pfaelzer. ORDER case returned to the Clerk for random reassignment pursuant to General Order 08-05. Case randomly reassigned from Judge Mariana R. Pfaelzer to Judge Margaret M. Morrow for all further proceedings. The case number will now reflect the initials of the transferee Judge CV09-07964 MMM (AGRx). (at)

7 Filed & Entered: 11/06/2009 Response to Notice of Fee Due on Pro Hac Vice Application
Docket Text: RESPONSE filed by Pro Hac Vice attorney Jeffrey G. Weil and Nathan Dooley on behalf of Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. RE: 4. (Dooley, Nathan)

8 Filed & Entered: 11/06/2009 Terminated: 11/09/2009 Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice
Docket Text: First APPLICATION for attorney John V. Donnelly III to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.) filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. (Dooley, Nathan)

9 Filed & Entered: 11/06/2009 Terminated: 11/12/2009 Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice
Docket Text: First APPLICATION for attorney Jillian R. Thornton to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.) filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. (Dooley, Nathan)

10 Filed: 11/06/2009 Entered: 11/09/2009 Notice of Deficiency in Electronically Filed Documents (G-112)
Docket Text: NOTICE TO FILER OF DEFICIENCIES in Electronically Filed Documents. The following error(s) was found: Incorrect event selected RE: Response to Notice of Fee Due on Pro Hac Vice Application, [7]. In response to this notice the court may order (1) an amended or correct document to be filed (2) the document stricken or (3) take other action as the court deems appropriate. (ak)

11 Filed & Entered: 11/09/2009 Notice of Deficiency in Electronically Filed Documents (G-112)
Docket Text: NOTICE TO FILER OF DEFICIENCIES in Electronically Filed Documents. The following error(s) was found: Proposed document was not submitted as separate attachment. RE: First APPLICATION for attorney Jillian R. Thornton to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.) [9], First APPLICATION for attorney John V. Donnelly III to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.)[8]. In response to this notice the court may order (1) an amended or correct document to be filed (2) the document stricken or (3) take other action as the court deems appropriate. (csi)

12 Filed & Entered: 11/09/2009 Order APPROVING Application (G-64) of Non-Resident Attorney to Appear
Docket Text: ORDER by Judge Margaret M. Morrow Granting First APPLICATION for attorney Jillian R. Thornton to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.)First APPLICATION for attorney Jillian R. Thornton to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.)[9] by Jillian R. Thornton to appear on behalf of Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer.Erik L. Jackson is designated as local counsel. Fee paid. (ah)

13 Filed & Entered: 11/09/2009 Errata
Docket Text: NOTICE OF ERRATA filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. correcting Notice of Removal,, [1] typographical error, paragraph 3. (Dooley, Nathan)

14 Filed: 11/09/2009 Entered: 11/10/2009 Order on Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice
Docket Text: ORDER ON APPLICATION OF NON-RESIDENT ATTORNEY TO APPEAR IN A SPECIFIC CASE by Judge Margaret M. Morrow: The Court, having reviewed the accompanying application of John V. Donnely III, for permission to appear and participate in the above-entitled action [8] Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice by Attorney John V. Donnelly, III on behalf of Defendant, all served defendants, designating Erik L. Jackson as local counsel. (bp)

15 Filed & Entered: 11/25/2009 Response By Court to Notice of Deficiencies (G-112B)
Docket Text: ORDER in Response to Notice of Filer Deficiency in Electronically Filed Document [7] by Judge Margaret M. Morrow. The document is STRICKEN and counsel is ORDERED to file an amended or corrected document by 12:00 noon on 12/2/2009. (csi)

16 Filed & Entered: 11/25/2009 Terminated: 12/02/2009 Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice
Docket Text: Renewed APPLICATION for attorney Jeffrey G. Weil to Appear Pro Hac Vice (PHV FEE NOT PAID.) filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. (Dooley, Nathan)

17 Filed & Entered: 11/30/2009 Terminated: 12/01/2009 Ex Parte Application to Exceed Page Limitation
Docket Text: First EX PARTE APPLICATION to Exceed Page Limitation Mem. P. & A. ISO Mot. to Dismiss filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer.(Dooley, Nathan)

18 Filed & Entered: 11/30/2009 Declaration (Motion related)
Docket Text: DECLARATION of Erik L. Jackson In Support of First EX PARTE APPLICATION to Exceed Page Limitation Mem. P. & A. ISO Mot. to Dismiss[17] filed by Defendants Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, Howard Lederer. (Dooley, Nathan)

19 Filed & Entered: 12/01/2009 Order on Ex Parte Application for Leave to File Excess Pages
Docket Text: ORDER Granting Ex Parte Application to Extend Page Limitation for Memorandum of Points and Authorities for Motion to Dismiss [17] by Judge Margaret M. Morrow. Defendants' Memorandum of Points and Authorities is extended by 15 pages. (csi)

20 Filed & Entered: 12/02/2009 Order on Application to Appear Pro Hac Vice
Docket Text: ORDER Granting Renewed Application of Attorney Jeffrey G. Weil to Appear Pro Hac Vice [16] by Judge Margaret M. Morrow. Attorney Jeffrey G. Weil to appear on behalf of all served defendants with Erik L. Jackson designated as local counsel. (csi)

21 Filed & Entered: 12/03/2009 Amended Document (Non-Motion)
Docket Text: ***DOCUMENT STRICKEN PER 12/3/2009 ORDER*** AMENDED DOCUMENT filed by Plaintiffs Lary Kennedy, Greg Omotoy. Amendment to Notice of Removal,, [1] Exhibit (Complaint) (Sanai, Cyrus) Modified on 12/3/2009 (csi).

22 Filed & Entered: 12/03/2009 Notice of Deficiency in Electronically Filed Documents (G-112)
Docket Text: NOTICE TO FILER OF DEFICIENCIES in Electronically Filed Documents. The following error(s) was found: Pursuant to GO 08-02, initiating documents such as Amended Complaints are to be manually filed then e-mail a conformed electronic PDF version to: civilintakecourtdocs-LA@cacd.uscourts.gov RE: Amended Document (Non-Motion)[21]. In response to this notice the court may order (1) an amended or correct document to be filed (2) the document stricken or (3) take other action as the court deems appropriate. (bp)

23 Filed & Entered: 12/03/2009 Response By Court to Notice of Deficiencies (G-112B)
Docket Text: ORDER in Response to Notice of Filer Deficiency in Electronically Filed Document [21] by Judge Margaret M. Morrow. The document is STRICKEN and counsel is ORDERED to file an amended or corrected document by 12/4/2009. Initiating documents must comply with Gen. Order 08-02 V.C.1.. (csi)

24 Filed: 12/04/2009 Entered: 12/08/2009 Amended Complaint
Docket Text: FIRST AMENDED COMPLAINT against defendants' Pocket Kings LTD, Raymond Bitar, Phillip Gordon, Andy Bloch, Phil Ivey, Perry Friedman, John Juanda, Erik Lindgren, Erik Seidel, Michael Matusow, Allen Cunningham, Full Tilt Poker, Gus Hansen, Patrik Antonius, Tiltware LLC, Chris Ferguson, DOES, Howard Lederer amending Notice of Removal, [1]; JURY DEMAND, filed by Plaintiffs' Lary Kennedy, Greg Omotoy (bp) (Additional attachment(s) added on 12/8/2009: # (1) FAC) (bp).

-----------------

For the original stuff in LA county court:
http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civil/

Click on Case Summary on left, then enter the Case Number: BC423036
LARY KENNEDY ET AL VS FULL TILT POKER ET AL

QTF

It's extremely unethical to have owners playing in games. There is a definate conflict of interest. The site operates under the premise that they make their money off rake, and have no vested interest in the outcome of games. This arrangement is undermined when stakeholders (e.g. owners) play in the games, especially at the highest limits, as they have an interest in both the rake and outcome of certain games.

Whilst I doubt that Full Tilt deliberately cheats it players, I wouldn't say it's impossible or even highly improbable--just unlikely. By way of comparison, I'm extremely doubtful that Pokerstars deliberately cheats its players. Pokerstars has smartly avoided appearances of impropriety by demonstrating tranparency, consistent application of policies, and sensible policies on employee involvement in games.

Jeff Oneye 'Don't piss in the well that quenches your thirst.'