Euro Accounts and Games Launched at PokerStars - Page 6 - Internet Poker

demoneyez · 11-17-2009, 07:20 PM

And what will happen when i filter out Euro cash tables? The player base will get halved. NO WAY will i EVER convert US$ to EUROS. I dont need or want that headache. End result = less rake for pokerstars.

**RoundTower** · 11-17-2009, 07:21 PM

if this was any other site I would think doing things this way is half retarded, half a set up to rape the customer. I guess I can give Stars the benefit of the doubt for a little while.

vetiver · 11-17-2009, 07:21 PM

i thought in testing the vig was 0.2%. did i just pull that out of nowhere? 1% is pretty insane. if Obama proposed raising taxes i'd want to know what the tax dollars are needed for, not how much more some other countries levy in taxes. is it not relatively easy for stars to tie exchange rates to a live forex rate calculator?

downgoesdown · 11-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogwai316

I share the same concerns as most people in this thread, and think that dividing up the player pool is a really bad thing for all of us. But if it does go through, and the fees stay as well, maybe you could at least make it a VIP benefit to eliminate the fees for Supernova players. I'm sure all of us would give up a couple weekly freeroll tourneys for that instead.

good idea

Lyrrad · 11-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukofyork

The problem is that unless the accounts you use to deposit/withdraw are in the same currency you'll end up paying the banks (a possibly higher amount of) vig instead.

I have 1 CAD bank account. I can deposit into my USD or EUR accounts with a 0% fee since PokerStars is the one withdrawing from my CAD account in CAD and doing the conversion themselves.

Radish · 11-17-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praetor

Seriously, keep all teh tabels in $ and allow people to have balances in multiple currencies is by far better than this retarded [sounding] system

This and its really not a big deal. Ladbrokes uses this system and pls Alex explain me why stars doesn t implement this system as easy and simple as it is?

the 5*VPP change and this isn t rly motivating me to give supernova elite a shot next year..

Tapirboy · 11-17-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

I also hope that some of the smart people hiding in the back rows here at 2+2 will take the time to directly compare our system with that of other operators, in terms of ease of use in real situations and the value for money it represents.

The smart people in the back rows at 2+2 have been telling you what a terrible idea this is in the software thread for months. You gave us pretty good details on the whole process, we have not been in the dark, just you have not been listening.

deathduck · 11-17-2009, 07:39 PM

If euro tables become popular then it's going to suck for US players. If I wanted to play 50NL (euro) I would convert 2k$ and pay 20$, then lets say I run it up to 3k$ US, I convert back because I need to withdraw and pay $30?

I'm losing a buy-in paying vig on this system where as before I didn't lose any $$ to fees !

I probably won't end up converting but I will switch to FTP if the US $ tables lose too many fish.

gnalf · 11-17-2009, 07:45 PM

when the games have settled, the exchange-rates are going to dictate which currency to play for max VPP value

LebreMan · 11-17-2009, 07:47 PM

let me get this straight, if i make the switch to euros can i still enter the mtts that are in dolars?

TheRaiderr · 11-17-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LebreMan

let me get this straight, if i make the switch to euros can i still enter the mtts that are in dolars?

yes but you have to pay 1% to turn your euros into dollars before you play.

irishman3 · 11-17-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukofyork

Lets me get this right:

Party System
A UK player sits in a cash game with $100. The $100 gets converted from his account (which is kept as £s) at a rate that is 2.79% less than then "mid-market rate" (not even sure it is, but whatever...). He then immediately gets up and the amount gets converted back (taking into account the 2.79% lower value he was given when he sat). The final amount in his account after this is exactly the same as what he started with?

Stars System
A UK player converts £100 to the equivalent amount of dollars paying the 1% fee. He then immediately converts back to £s. The final amount in his account is £98.01 which means he's paid £1.99 for the privilege?

How is the Stars system better?

Juk

Party System
When you take 100 euros to a 1/2 NL Table using todays rates with the 2.79% lower value they give you $144.73 instead of $148.88. What nobody seems to realize is Party makes the 2.79% everytime you win or lose money.

If you win a $100.00 they pay you 2.79% less than it is worth when you convert back to euros. This means every time you take a $100.00 off an american player they keep 2.79% of the value. If you lose the $100, they gave it to you at a 2.79% discount to them so it only cost them $97.21 to pay the person who won the money.

If you turn the $144.73 into a $1000.00 you will only get 652.96 Euros back.

Party makes thier money they just don't tell you they are.

Stars System
You convert $100 to Euros with a 1% fee you get $147.37.

If you turn this into a $1,000 and convert back you would get 665.03 Euros after the 1% fee. However you don't need to convert the money back, you can just keep it in dollars until you want to withdraw.

If you are concerned about the split player pools just split your roll and play both currencies.

irishman3 · 11-17-2009, 08:06 PM

Also lets not forget that party forces you to pay thier vig because they don't give you the option to play in euros.

repulse · 11-17-2009, 08:21 PM

I haven't paid attention to the multi-currency developments until right now, because I'm a self-absorbed American player.

Let's say I currently play on PokerStars and play certain games for which I keep a $10,000 bankroll, which is a large enough bankroll that I essentially never need to deposit.

Now, if I want to continue being able to play all of these games, since some of them will split into Euro games at nearly-approximate currencies, my choices seem to be the following:

1) Continue to keep currencies whose total worth is $10,000, but pay fees every time I have to swap between my two $5,000 bankrolls for each currency (which should happen often if these are only half-bankrolls for my games). It seems like these fees could really add up.
2) Keep two bankrolls whose total worth is $20,000, in which case I should still never need to redeposit or swap between bankrolls to maintain each of my $10,000 USD and Euro bankrolls. But now, I have to keep twice as much money online (negative results to me: loss of interest, liquidity issues) to be able to play in all of the available games at my level of stakes.

Oh, and either way I'll still be paying 1% every time I cash out of my Euro account.

I'm not questioning the competitiveness of the rates here, but to me, as a player, the bottom line seems to be that I am going to be paying quite a bit of money from here on out for the privilege of continuing to be able play all of the games at my level of stakes on PokerStars.

I don't like this! Can anybody help resolve or partially resolve my concerns? Is this just a natural global redistribution of currency conversion fees that, up until now, European players have been paying all of?

lacky · 11-17-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

Lets try to keep this thread constructive and on-topic.

I do hope people will at least try out our system before they judge it. I also hope that some of the smart people hiding in the back rows here at 2+2 will take the time to directly compare our system with that of other operators, in terms of ease of use in real situations and the value for money it represents.

The decision on this design was made after months of research and discussion. I can assure you we considered the pros and cons of 'splitting the player pool', as well as the possibility of adopting the same system as is used at some of our competitors. We feel strongly that our system not only represents better value, but meets more of the needs of players for whom USD is not the native currency.

Regarding the margin applied to the exchange rate. In our initial research we found that every site we studied applied such a margin, with some charging as much as 2.79%. Some also applied this margin to deposits and cashouts (which PokerStars doesn't do), and every single site also charged a higher rake (particularly those that had tables in other currencies too). Compared to this (and also compared to the rates offered by banks and other currency exchange companies), PokerStars' margin of 1% on the mid-market rate represents excellent value. You probably won't find a better rate anywhere. In addition, PokerStars is being up-front and honest about the margin while other operators choose to hide it in the fine print or not disclose it at all.

A margin of some kind is a necessity, as there is such significant risk in currency trading (all reputable sites match player deposits in segregated accounts, so if you move $100 USD to EUR, so do we).

The idea that you can convert money anywhere without being subject to this margin is a fallacy. I strongly encourage players who believe it is true to compare the rates they are being given to the actual mid-market rates supplied by Reuters, XE, or another reputable source.

Alex, all I can do is give you my perspective as one of your 24 tabling SNE grinders. The idea of having to maintain bankrolls and play in 4 currencies just to load up 24 tables and be able to game select seems like a huge step down from what I do now.

Can you please explain to me how this is a good change for me so I can try and see it more positively than the future headache I'm seeing.