Originally Posted by HiLo66
The rake should go higher in bb/100 as you climb limits not lower. To have it set up this way is crazy. We all end up like a dog chasing it's tail and getting nowhere.
What? I'm a micro stakes player myself, but suggesting that HS rake in bb/100 should be higher is ridiculous and will only generate further dissension within this
Edges are certainly smaller as you move up, so they definitely shouldn't be paying more in bb/100.
I would like to see a 10bb per hand cap at 10nl and less. Maybe 8bb @ 25nl, and progressively smaller caps expressed in bb's as you move up.
It is no secret that the current system is horrible for micro players in terms of bb/100 in rake but we can only go so far in increasing rake at HS. I can't imagine charging somebody at 600nl $60 to play a 200bb pot. That would be rake rape and would certainly kill online poker.
Edges are insanely bigger at the micros, so I have no problem with paying more than mid-high stakes. I just have a problem with paying 100x more.
Edit: Somebody, or a some group here in this community, needs to step up and take some charge with these matters. We need leadership. The 50 pages of this thread contain some good ideas and a whole lot of bickering and flaming. We need a google doc system where a respected few with the power to edit it containing all the changes deemed necessary by this community. We need software and stats guys - that can run simulations and do some research to show or rather prove to Stars that lower rake is in all our best interests. We need to be more willing to work with Stars. I know a lot of us are bitter, myself included but fighting will get us nowhere.
I would like to make a pledge right now to Stars.
If you guys make some changes to the rake in this industry ( and yes you guys are pretty much the industry at this point ), I will:
1) Be very happy, no ecstatic and Stars will be back in good graces.
2) I will no longer call the new Stars greedy bastards at my weekly home games - none of my friends play on Stars currently because I've advised them that it is far more + EV to risk their lol $100 bankroll on a shady euro site and get 50% rakeback and play in softer games.
3) I will promote Stars with all my heart through word of mouth. I know a lot of recreational players who lose online at other sites. They know that I win consistently and I strongly believe that if I wanted to convince them to move their action to Stars they would.
4) I would call out every 2p2er in this thread to do the same. Sing your praises via the internet and in day to day life.
Basically Stars, the current system not only runs the risk of forever pissing off the smartest, closest to being organized, active part of your customer base, and biggest rake machines, but it also causes you to miss out on capitalizing on the many benefits of pleasing this same group. All people that I meet who play poker, look up to me. On 2p2 I may just be a lowly micro stakes grinder, but in the real world friends and friends of friends are in awe of me when they hear that I've made tens of thousands consistently off of an original $50 deposit. When the conversations lead to "Hey that's cool, maybe I should give it a try". I warn them not to bother, and advise them that I've put a lot of work into learning the game and 25NL is still not an easy level to beat.
Lets get organized, lets get some leadership happening. Don't look to me I'm not a leader in this community, but I just hope that I can get the ball rolling. I'm not sure who those people should necessarily be, but I definitely want to see JH1 on that list because the work he has done in the past several weeks has been top notch.
Note- Our 'leaders' do not necessarily need to be future player reps that go to IOM.