Discussion Thread re PokerStars Player Reps Report. Feb 2012

[shemhasai]

Originally Posted by xPeru

Lot of childish crap trolling IMO.



I also pointed out that there are something like 14 billionaires investing in companies which will attack the US market once it is legal to do so; that these guys would not be content with the US market and would become serious competition; and that Bernard Tapie is a lot more likely to make Full Tilt a serious threat to PokerStars than the previous management. I urged them to send us back with changes that would make Bernard Tapie shudder.

I really think you US guys are overestimating Bernard Tapie and the possible come back of FTP. If you guys actually knew the political background of Tapie, you wouldn't be so quick to put so much faith and hope in him.

I personally am not that confident in Tapie taking over a poker company, knowing what he pulled in the past in France.

[LunaEqualsLuna]

Originally Posted by shemhasai

I really think you US guys are overestimating Bernard Tapie and the possible come back of FTP. If you guys actually knew the political background of Tapie, you wouldn't be so quick to put so much faith and hope in him.

I personally am not that confident in Tapie taking over a poker company, knowing what he pulled in the past in France.

It isn't about confidence in Tapie, he may be the biggest arsehole ever, or the Jesus Christ of Poker, i don't know who he is and don't really care. It is about the simple fact that at the very least FTP is going to have to offer better value than pokerstars and possibly other sites, otherwise they will struggle to make a comeback. They have the software to compete with stars but a tarnished name and need to recover it.

Some people hope they will come in with revolutionary new low rake, i doubt they will, certainly not initially, but a worthy competitor to stars is a necessity. Other sites like party and ipoker have shown they won't step up to the plate so far.

A stars monopoly is a negative thing for us poker players as has been already proven.

[ROM Amnesty]

Originally Posted by LunaEqualsLuna

It isn't about confidence in Tapie, he may be the biggest arsehole ever, or the Jesus Christ of Poker, i don't know who he is and don't really care. It is about the simple fact that at the very least FTP is going to have to offer better value than pokerstars and possibly other sites, otherwise they will struggle to make a comeback. They have the software to compete with stars but a tarnished name and need to recover it.

Some people hope they will come in with revolutionary new low rake, i doubt they will, certainly not initially, but a worthy competitor to stars is a necessity. Other sites like party and ipoker have shown they won't step up to the plate so far.

A stars monopoly is a negative thing for us poker players as has been already proven.

I can't comprehend how every [reasonably sized] poker site can't have decent software, considering the quality of games software on the market. It can't be that hard for a smart team of programmers to code some aesthetically pleasing, easy-to-use poker software, can it?

[Jah Onion]

Originally Posted by Admania

I vote for you to go the IOM. Seriously I would love it , I'm not sure Stars would approve though

only if Rom joins me.

You guys are complaining about a built in component of the VIP program that has existed since its creation.

ROFL are you kidding me? That's your argument?

Hmmm what other component's of the VIP program have existed since its creation? Anyone? oooooh I know! THE DEALT SYSTEM OF AWARDING VPPs. Guess what happened to that in Jan 2012? PokerStars changed it in the interest of fairness

So apparently, things that are unfair for the playing community can be changed. Even if it's a massive change for something that's been there ever since the VIP system was created.

[Jah Onion]

I can't comprehend how every [reasonably sized] poker site can't have decent software, considering the quality of games software on the market. It can't be that hard for a smart team of programmers to code some aesthetically pleasing, easy-to-use poker software, can it?

No, it can't and it isn't. What you are overlooking is the level of idiocy of management and their support staff at said pokersites. A very very small number of people in management positions in ANY company are actually intelligent, competent people who have the skills to grow a business to its full potential. In contrast, most poker site managers/support staff have no propensity to look past the short term concept of let's make a lot of profit this year.

So in the interest of a larger profit margin, they'll cut all sorts of corners, even though not doing so would probably lead to a huge increase in profits down the line.

[Birdseye]

Jah Onion for president, MikeGotNuts for VP.

Seriously, I don't need to reply because Jah is nailing everything 100% thanks man!!

Steve is very selective in what he replies to, generally ignoring most of the good player points and only jumping in when he can make a minor technical clarification. Not very cool, I think he would do better just saying 'sorry this is it we need to pay our DOJ fines to re-enter US and we don't want to lower our standard of extremely high profits' but it's just smokescreen the whole time. Still laughing at the idea that they gave up more than they got on giving up the dealt system. Stars is laughing too...all the way to the bank.

Somewhere I wonder if Isai has one of those money rooms like Uncle Scrooge in Duck Tales, just swimming in all the player monies

[TheRaiderr]

Originally Posted by chisness

What is the point of this?

You think we were unaware of other sites offering 60% RB?

We tried to get the biggest decrease we could. You guys are complaining about a built in component of the VIP program that has existed since its creation.

Some reps weren't really aware.


And it isn't just the 60% rb, there are sites offering rewards to everyone which are still higher than the low end of the stars reward system.

You could really knock over the stars "we are the only site that rewards people" pretty quickly.

I personally think that creative ways of getting these players which know of the huge value available elsewhere should be evaluated.


The fact we had representation means it is time to look at ways to change it.

I understand what you guys tried to do, I just think it wasn't the right tact and has actually frustrated people more at stars since the players it hurt notice, and the ones it didn't/improved is pretty much so small it isn't noticeable. But maybe this was what stars wanted all along but wanted it to seem like it was the players idea, rather than their idea (the changes to 6max).

Maybe I totally misunderstood, but I thought the meeting was a chance for the players to have a say over everything, not just the change to WC.

[kingc11]

The reps seemed to have worked their ass's off. They obv did their best, theyre in all the stars games.

I cant seem to get this questions answered tho. Is anyone getting better rakeback then before? Im getting less vpp/hand paying a ton more rake per vpp, fine. People getting the same vpp/hand as last year are paying more rake per vpp.

So doesnt that mean the guy playing 50% of hands lets say, is also paying more rake per vpp?

I dont have anger that people have in this thread, but I do just want Steve or who ever to just say the vip system is much worst than it was before. Isnt this page false advertisement?

http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/tiers/

thx.

[drakx999]

I think some people tend to forget why stars cant give 60% snap rakeback to everyone...
You guy got to remember that stars invest alot of money in their security/marketing/support/promotion then any other site on planet basicly take a site that offer 60% RB i would be scare as hell to have 50k there you ask their suppport take 4day get a copy/paste auto reply cmon....and site could close tomorrow....

[TheRaiderr]

Originally Posted by kingc11

The reps seemed to have worked their ass's off. They obv did their best, theyre in all the stars games.

I cant seem to get this questions answered tho. Is anyone getting better rakeback then before? Im getting less vpp/hand paying a ton more rake per vpp, fine. People getting the same vpp/hand as last year are paying more rake per vpp.

So doesnt that mean the guy playing 50% of hands lets say, is also paying more rake per vpp?

I dont have anger that people have in this thread, but I do just want Steve or who ever to just say the vip system is much worst than it was before. Isnt this page false advertisement?

http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/tiers/

thx.

The same number of vpp's should be distributed, they are just distributed differently.

The general argument is they are mainly going to bronzestar/silverstar players which means they are getting out less fpp's cause of the mulitpliers.

[starvingwriter82]

Originally Posted by drakx999

I think some people tend to forget why stars cant give 60% snap rakeback to everyone...
You guy got to remember that stars invest alot of money in their security/marketing/support/promotion then any other site on planet basicly take a site that offer 60% RB i would be scare as hell to have 50k there you ask their suppport take 4day get a copy/paste auto reply cmon....and site could close tomorrow....

None of the bolded is even close to an accurate representation of reality.

iPoker for example has quick cashouts and knowledgeable (in my experience) live chat support. Partypoker is on the ball as well, and if you think either of those is just going to disappear without a trace, you're just paranoid.

I mean, if you're playing at GankURollPoker.... sure. But the idea that Stars is the only company with competent support is mostly just a myth perpetuated by US players who only had Full Tilt and Cake to compare them to.

[Jah Onion]

Regarding security of money:

If I play 200k hands/month at 100NL i'm losing about 2k/month in RB if I play on stars compared to playing on merge.
So if I play for a year on stars, i'm effectively losing 24k, yes that's twenty four thousand dollars in rakeback per year. Considering I play 100NL and I can easily redeposit, i never have more than 2.5k-3k online.

So, if I play on merge and they **** up big time and i lose ALL my money, i stand to lose 3k

If I play on pokerstars, I lose 2k every month in rakeback amounting to $24000 in one year.



hmmmm decisions decisions.

Is email support really worth 24k/year? not to me it ain't.

I'm clearing my 'pace' bonus and I'm done with pokerstars. say goodbye to another supernova stars. And in case some fishnoobs want to talk about me being a nit and complaining, i play 19/15 at FR, among the loosest regulars.

[jerseys]

I'm sorry, I don't want to read all 2000 posts. Could someone tell me when is PS introducing the new stakes - PLO6 and PLO16?

[krmont22]

Originally Posted by jerseys

I'm sorry, I don't want to read all 2000 posts. Could someone tell me when is PS introducing the new stakes - PLO6 and PLO16?

They were not planned for PLO. If they are very successful at NLH, and if the player pool at PLO can sustain it, it will be looked at in the future.

[reverie]

Originally Posted by ROM Amnesty

I can't comprehend how every [reasonably sized] poker site can't have decent software, considering the quality of games software on the market. It can't be that hard for a smart team of programmers to code some aesthetically pleasing, easy-to-use poker software, can it?

This is what it often comes down to and yet... imagine being a day trader and paying an extra 20-30% vig on your profit margin just so you can use the best software platform.

If poker client development was not so woefully under-invested and those directing development not so unresponsive we would be left with one last credible USP - stars are better at catching bots.

In a sense the other sites in the marketplace have let us down by not plugging that gap.