Discussion Thread re PokerStars Player Reps Report. Feb 2012

[xPeru]

This is the thread to discuss the Player representatives report and subsequent game and rake changes.


PokerStars Player Representatives Report





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[Dodo1497]

Rake in PLO will be same as NLHE ?

[gumaaa]

Linked thread is not linked to the linked thread.

I like the lower caps. But I wish they had a lower cap on split pots for split pot games.

[Antidote]

What is the rake structure at 5/10NL? It is not shown in the graphic.

[gumaaa]

They did increase the cap for 3-handed and 5-handed.

[gwp]

Looks likes a pretty good result on first read.

Why $5nl and $6nl though, surely $4nl should replace $5nl.

[Jkarioun]

Originally Posted by Dodo1497

Rake in PLO will be same as NLHE ?

I was wondering too, changes seem good for plo2 but meh for plo5-plo25

Originally Posted by gwp

Looks likes a pretty good result on first read.

Why $5nl and $6nl though, surely $4nl should replace $5nl.

+1, they might as well change 25nl into 30nl with the new 16nl introduced

[richsmith0810]

Changes seem extremely promising. Good job guys. Although it says that that the rake has been increased at 25/50 and above? It seems that the rake caps are the same (bar from the 3 player cap) and the rake has reduced to 4.5%?

[Bluegrassplayer]

First of all wanted to thank all the reps for their hard work. Seems like a pretty intense group of sessions, a lot of time involved, little gain on your parts, and you're clearly looking out for the best interests of the poker community. Thanks a lot.


I was really curious how you all came about this figure:

Rake Revenue
The change from dealt to weighted contributed rake gave PokerStars an increase in cash game revenue of about 1.5%.

This seems incredibly low to me as many regs have recorded 20%+ drops in VPP (your group says 14%) rate. There are also 3 major factors which lead me to believe this number is in fact much higher:

1. There will be much fewer cash game regs reaching SNE but will still put in a lot of volume so eventually they will be producing a ton of rake but not getting as much rakeback.

2. A lot of players with much lower FPP multipliers are now getting more VPPs but they don't get nearly as many FPPs.

3. A lot of the players now getting distrubted these FPPs will go broke before spending them, or spend them on items which are massively +EV for Pokerstars.


I also really don't know what this 1.5% means. Does it mean only 1.5% fewer VPPs are handed out? How can stars possibly already know that this will result in a loss of overall profit from cash games of 1.5%? It's been one month... and all SNEs that were able to get SNE are still SNE so far.

It seems like this number is impossible to know if we are talking about overall profit.

[Hood]

I have just posted my FL report in the thread.

We had hoped our report would should an breakdown by game and stake type of the rake reduction. However, there were some last-minute issues with the data and we are waiting on these results. It may be early next week when these are posted.

[Masq]

Originally Posted by Gregg777

Can you please give us the new expected bb/100 rake for specific stakes?

For example, right now 10NL is raked 10bb/100. Under the new system what will it be?

Current rake NL 6max: Link
2NL 9bb/100
5NL 8bb/100
10NL 10bb/100
25NL 8bb/100
50NL 7bb/100
100NL 6bb/100
200NL 4bb/100

New System:
2NL ?bb/100
5NL ?bb/100
10NL ?bb/100
25NL ?bb/100
50NL ?bb/100
100NL ?bb/100
200NL ?bb/100

I am not expecting a miracle, just want to see what the new numbers actually are.

Now the report's out can someone answer the questions above? Also for PLO? On the face of it, it sounds like the rake's still extortionately high to make it an unattractive proposition playing on Stars.

[TheRaiderr]

While i appreciate all the work, for future meetings there shouldn't be an automatic right for current reps to go and other people should be given a chance IMO(if there are people who wish to step up via vote).

[Hood]

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

This seems incredibly low to me as many regs have recorded 20%+ drops in VPP rate. There are also 3 major factors which lead me to believe this number is in fact much higher:

1. There will be much fewer cash game regs reaching SNE but will still put in a lot of volume so eventually they will be producing a ton of rake but not getting as much rakeback.

2. A lot of players with FPP multipliers are now getting more VPPs but they don't get nearly as many FPPs.

3. A lot of the players now getting distrubted these FPPs will go broke before spending them, or spend them on items which is massively +EV for Pokerstars.

I believe individual player reports will go in to more specifics here but i will answer this question broadly as I see it being a common one.

Firstly, we spent a LOT of time on this 1.5% figure. Perhaps 2+ days in total was a
focus on us feeling confident on this figures accuracy. I agree it's very unintuitive. We cannot post specifics as it is based on confidential business information. However, I can say that - within reasonable boundaries (this was not a full independent audit, we have to assume that raw data we are provided is real) all players on the panel were confident of this figure and confident that the rake reductions give more back to players than the rewards reductions take away.

All three of your points were interrogated by the players. We simulated players moving between VIP levels as a result, we looked at the differing VPP value to players, we looked at expiry/redemption rates of of FPPs.

The 1.5% is the increase in pokerstars cash game revenue due to fewer rewards being paid out due to the switch to WC. It is not the reduction in rewards paid out. The reason we are talking in teh 1.5% figure is that it makes it comprable to the reduction in rake due to the structural changes.

[Hood]

Originally Posted by TheRaiderr

While i appreciate all the work, for future meetings there shouldn't be an automatic right for current reps to go and other people should be given a chance IMO(if there are people who wish to step up via vote).

There is no assumption future meetings would involve any of the player reps who went to the meeting last week.

[CrazyJoe]

Thank you guys! Great changes for the micro stakes players.

I'm moving back to PS asap!

...the new levels are super-great idea too!