Wait, what? Losing to bots doesn't have anything to do with why they are such a detriment to the game? The bots' results are exactly why they are so bad. If they were all losers would there be any objetion? Not really, no.

On a site like ACR/WPN, there are lucrative rewards for high-volume play (competitive rake races). Not all humans can maintain whatever edge they have when playing high volume. On the other hand, bots can. So to say they are just saving themselves some time is not really accurate, in my opinion.

There's a smattering of sociopaths voicing some warped morals in this thread.

I assume he means that him losing, or you losing, or the guy that replied to him losing, doesn't matter. What matters to people is if the bots take money out of the game overall.

And no, of course there wouldn't be much objection if they were all losing after bonuses and rakeback. Of course, that will never happen long term.

Likely 25nl FR botters: (all russian)
srge223322
Parcker
Alfaluck
Obamka
Ksander
Led177 (was a shortstacker for first 10k hands and has been playing full buy ins since.)
dankman (has stats of bot but is from us)

ICRobI best bot on ACR. Just fold IMO.

I think this is very wrong. If the bots were not playing, the net depositors (recreational players) would still be playing against other humans and their net deposits would be raked eventually by the site. In a lot of games, a good bot has a very large edge over the recreational player. The site would prefer the recreational players to just play each other, since the disparity in skill would be the smallest. The larger the disparity in skill, the smaller the total amount of hands played and the smaller the net amount raked. The only time a site would want bots is if there are recreational players who have trouble getting games started and end up leaving the site without any hands being raked.

Your thoughts on the ethics of botting are similarly half-baked. Everyone who plays on a poker site enters into an implicit agreement with other players not to violate the site's terms of service and gain an unfair advantage. To intentionally violate the TOS is to breach this implicit agreement. The amount of hours a botter has put into designing her bot is irrelevant. If a player spends 10,000 hours figuring out how to hack the site's servers and see what other players are holding, does that make it ethical?

pretty sure dankman not a bot, been playing some 50 recently talks in chat etc, timings, sizings all std also

You could be right, Just his ranges are so close to those of the other russians that even though he seems a little human like, I feel it could just be a more advanced bot similar to the one op was describing.

yea its posible

That troll PocketDucks did. He didn't get banned for the longest time, because it's so unusual for people to lie just for the 'fun' of it, people just couldn't believe someone would be like that.

That sort of behavior has to be incredibly rare though. If the OP's posts are from New Zealand and ACR isn't even available there, then it would clearly be a troll.

confirmed dankmann not bot. still out on the others.

Pretty sure good regs would win at a much better rate with no bots, in turn, keeping the rake the same or even making it lower. Say a reg can win at 7BB/100 with no bots, but with 2 bots in the game the reg wins at 3BB/100 and the bots win at 1BB/100.. thus only 5bb/100 are being taken out as opposed to 7. Actual numbers may vary, but the idea is still the same.

**This guy is a self-admitted multi-accounter / chipdumper on Bovada.**

I actually just recently posted about this in the Bovada thread.

He has a video on YouTube:
How I "Cheated" for Years on Bovada Poker and Was BANNED For Life and Current Collusion Scam?

You can see his ACR username in his other videos.

Not the greatest play in the world by you.

What you've done is caused the OP of a fairly interesting thread, one that could be useful for anyone looking out for bots (both players and sites), to run off and grow silent.

I have no problem with the fact that you reported him to WPN. Yes, get them started on determining a way to prevent this in the future (if they are actually serious about doing that). But, by posting in this thread, you have now ended any chance of the OP providing more details about both himself and the botting world.

how did you confirm this, other then talking to him on his Youtube channel?

He definitely has shown a willingness to cheat by investigating what software he could find to go around Bovada's 4 table limit, and then chip dumping.

You might also want to ask for some royalties, as you are on all 6 of his tables in his confessional video, where he says he has moved on to ACR. has you running 11/9/2.5 4.4k hands

Good eye!

Very fair point, i just took his youtube channel and him playing on the account to mean its not a bot, but i guess that doesnt mean he hasnt cheated.

For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter what rate the good humans are winning at. It only matters what the recreational player is losing at. The more he is losing per hand in bb/100, the less the sites will rake. What you say is theoretically possible, but what makes you think the recreational player would lose at a lesser rate vs 2 bots and 1 human than it would against 3 humans? I would think the recreational player would lose at least the same and maybe more.

Humans play better exploitative poker, which is what increases their win rate against a fish.

If you see people from belarus and russian and there is more then 1 on a table your going to run into bots and collusion. I hear people want to ban people from russia completely from online poker but not all of them are playing unfair. Thats not fair to the players who play a fair game. So trying to ban everyone doesn't work. What bovada did was very smart. Made an american site for americans and they got a ton of traffic. I think wpn should consider doing that. But also consider not having an auto rebuy to 100bbs.

THe problem with skins on wpn is people give feedback and they don't change anything. The only things change is if these skins make their own poker software like bovada did. They continue to use the same promotion and from poker scouts traffic graph they are losing more and more traffic. WPN wont change anything they are just happy collecting rake from grinders but players are leaving. They tried the beast its not working out try something else. Bring fish not potential bots and grinders.

I don't think thats fair for you to put people on blast and accuse them of being bots without knowing for sure. Thats not cool if some of these guys are playing a fair game.

Kids in africa can't eat a meal for 3 days and you eat 3 times a day, life isnt fair. There's so much incriminating evidence online in russian that russian "fair" players could look through and help us catch all the cheater but none of the people fighting bots are russians.
Until you guys start doing something about your large amount of cheaters, nobody is gonna care about your feelings.

Like i have said in previous threads, almost every single russian i have reported to partypoker has been gone from the tables so imo all the winning russians are cheaters.

The bot's biggest advantage over the human player is it's ability to play large volume and not tire across multiple tables while also not seeing a degradation in it's strategy as it increases it's table count.

OP I believe estimated that 15% of the player pool on WPN is more than likely a bot? That number seems high but whatever the number is I think we can agree those bots probably play a considerable amount of volume across many more tables than a random selected group of 15% of the player pool would normally play.

In the future we can only hope that sites combat the issue of bots with better security measures and/or punishments when the player is caught cheating but for now it seems one of the best things that some of these smaller networks could do if they really cared about attacking the issue head on and protecting their players would be to limit the table count per account on their site. This would lessen the advantage a bot has over a human player and also lessen the detrimental effect that they have on the overall poker economy. Of course the site would probably make a lot less money in the short term

And also no risk of degradation due to tilt.