Chinese DON Collusion Ring on Stars? - Page 21 - Internet Poker

**Joe Tall** · 05-25-2010, 01:35 PM

What exact location is listed for these Chinese players?

Is it Fuzhou?

flopp_deuces · 05-25-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tall

What exact location is listed for these Chinese players?

Is it Fuzhou?

Some of the names of locations are different I believe but they are all in the Hanzou(sp?) district. Im obviously not familiar with China or its cities and districts but they were all around the same location as far as I know.

FilthyRaven · 05-25-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexstat

So I was talking to a friend on skype regarding this and both agree that we have been guilty of not doing our share of policing our games.

I'd like to know if any of you DoN reg's would like to attempt setting up something amongst ourselves to look for collusion at our respective levels. I also don't want to defend stars but the fact remains that we can also do our part to try and protect the integrity of the game.

I'm open to ideas as to better ways to do this but for the moment I'm thinking that we can gather a certain number of regs for each level and just take a day out of the week to look at your own hh's. If you find something fishy then we can communicate this info to each other. At that point we look for hh's vs players in question and hopefully find the scumbags red handed.

If we continue to play blind and just hope that stars will police the games this can only lead to us losing equity that belongs to players that are playing the games with integrity.

I already have a room of DoN players on skype but as mentioned several have moved on cause of horrible Jan+ months but i'm sure the remaining are willing to contribute. PM or post here if this sounds like something that you are willing to help with.

I agree with this. We should be looking to get something constructive out of this rather than derailing this thread with semantics over what constitutes evidence.
This whole situation is pretty messed up.. its this weakness of DoN's to collusion that is holding stars back from making 208's imo which is something alot of us want.. we may have to put in some work to clean the games up and get them. I must say that I feel there is definately still strange going on in alot of these games.. its hard to pus a finger on but I guess its yet more of an incentive to thoroughly review hands.
There are certainly some issues with the reimbursement of players that need to be looked at but at the moment we should be concentrating on catching these guys.

RainMan77 · 05-25-2010, 02:08 PM

Did anybody else notice post #2 in this thread?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-going-722978/

The person says their name is xiandan....again xia which is also the name of OP and also found in many of the implicated screen names.

Would be interesting if this account(wahaha) could somehow be linked to the OP of this thread.

vetiver · 05-25-2010, 02:14 PM

i reported two of the SN's listed in the OP back in February:

Quote:

PokerStars Game #39203656918: Tournament #239348516, $50+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2010/02/04 1:49:19 ET
Table '239348516 1' 10-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: HERO (1780 in chips)
Seat 4: StillTheSame (2000 in chips)
Seat 5: chijianli (2950 in chips)
Seat 7: meggo7 (1825 in chips)
Seat 9: trashcall (5630 in chips)
Seat 10: yutian (815 in chips)
HERO: posts the ante 40
StillTheSame: posts the ante 40
chijianli: posts the ante 40
meggo7: posts the ante 40
trashcall: posts the ante 40
yutian: posts the ante 40
StillTheSame: posts small blind 200
chijianli: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [7h 9s]
meggo7: folds
trashcall: folds
yutian: raises 375 to 775 and is all-in
HERO: folds
StillTheSame: folds
chijianli has timed out
chijianli: folds
Uncalled bet (375) returned to yutian
chijianli is sitting out
yutian collected 1240 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1240 | Rake 0
Seat 3: HERO (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: StillTheSame (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: chijianli (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: meggo7 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: trashcall folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: yutian collected (1240)

When I witnessed this play I thought it was peculiar. Chij just needs to call 375 more to potentially win the tournament. Calling and losing leaves him still in 2nd comfortably. Folding and saving 375 chips doesn't add a whole lot of utility or fold equity in future rounds. I looked at their locations and they are both from Wenzhou in China. Additionally I think Chij sitting out rather than clicking fold is even more indicting because it seems to be intentionally setting up a future excuse that "oh I just timed out I would've clicked call had I been there to make the decision". The problem with that defense is that he/she was playing another SNG at the same time and was not sitting out at that table. Additionally Chij remained sitting out for the next hand where Yutian shoved again. Upon it auto-folding Chij's hand Chij immediately sat back in, all the while sitting in and playing on his other table.

I don't think a fold in and of itself is absolute proof of collusion, but the circumstances surrounding it (the timeout, from the same chinese province) were highly suspect. It appears yutian was probably banned 2 days after I sent the email.

vetiver · 05-25-2010, 02:19 PM

Could someone point me how to do head-to-head comparisons in sharkscope?

NVM: for some reason it wasn't showing up in my more options pull down until i restarted.

evasive · 05-25-2010, 02:21 PM

How about Stars sending out a standard "welcome" e-mail to new SNG players gently telling them of some important rules :
English chat
No collusion chat
No stack balancing etc
We have autodetect sytems to find these and we can take your money, this is to protect the integrity of our games etc etc,

or would this actually scare recreational players off?
or maybe a reminder e-mail for winning players after a certain number of games.

RosieTheGreat · 05-25-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayRodent1

Jane - 显示您的奶头

this makes very little sense btw. LOL google translate.

Caramelldansen · 05-25-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evasive

How about Stars sending out a standard "welcome" e-mail to new SNG players gently telling them of some important rules :
English chat
No collusion chat
No stack balancing etc
We have autodetect sytems to find these and we can take your money, this is to protect the integrity of our games etc etc,

or would this actually scare recreational players off?
or maybe a reminder e-mail for winning players after a certain number of games.

Probably would scare off recreational players or discourage some portions of legitimate chat (ie discussing a hand that's already over)

Sending this to anyone who's winning after a certain amount of games may lead some winners to believe they are suspects of collusion or something they aren't which may discourage the volume of games they play which is a big no-no for the site.

This stuff should be straightforward.

black666 · 05-25-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire

If I were running PS I would become more proactive in catching cheaters. I don't know how much money it would cost to do this but here's my plan: I would KNOW why winning players win. All of them, and I would do a small random sampling of non-winning players as well.

Lol..why would you investigate losing players? Who is colluding to lose (more) money? And even if that would be the case - who would care? lol

I agree though that constant checks should be done for winning players. Especially after cashing out a certain amount of money. Nobody should be able to cash out 100k+ without having a security team at least check some of your HHs.

I don't know if it was Lee Jones or not who said that less than 1% of the players on PS are actually winning players. And there are probably even less players who have the bankroll to cashout 10k+ .. should therefore only be a reasonable amount of people who get their routine checks...

evasive · 05-25-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caramelldansen

Probably would scare off recreational players or discourage some portions of legitimate chat (ie discussing a hand that's already over)

Sending this to anyone who's winning after a certain amount of games may lead some winners to believe they are suspects of collusion or something they aren't which may discourage the volume of games they play which is a big no-no for the site.

This stuff should be straightforward.

The trouble is some players don't really regard chip dumping as cheating and they don't think they are going to get caught.

I spoke to a casual player and they were suprised that I had had lots of collusion credits and they also admitted to trying sharing hole cards with friends

acethiest · 05-25-2010, 02:47 PM

Don't understand why people are so shocked. I left DoN nearly a year ago now. I posted about how easy it was to cheat and how pokerstars had no way to catch the cheaters except from reports by fellow players. Fact is if you play DoN you are being cheated every day. I would imagine maybe 10% of cheating funds are recovered to players. If you plays these you are asking to be cheated.

vetiver · 05-25-2010, 02:56 PM

Added up # of games played with each user in the OP and got 462, so I'd guess it's ~300 with overlap. My ROI in those games was in fact lower than my average, but that's rather irrelevant to the refund issue. +1 to flopp's notion that stars should make their refund policy & amounts public to ensure transparency and fairness. what is the argument against this?

Going forward in the future, more needs to be done to detect violations of T&C. They have a whole department dedicated to this, no? Why is it mass-multitablers who hardly have time to watch actions on tables that don't involve themselves are the ones cluing stars security in? Here's an idea: if there are 20+ screennames all from the same Chinese province (I don't care if it's 1M+, that's like the size of a mid-metropolitan here and would insta-arouse suspicions if 20 people from Milwaukee just happened to frequent the $52-104 DoN's) check out their registration patterns and play vs each other? Additionally there is a SN grinding 10,000 $1 DoN's a day. That SN needs to be banned out of principle.

pokerace420 · 05-25-2010, 03:05 PM

all i can say is i want to see some hand histories.

but this seems to be bigger than just jane.

honestly though if they banned 50-100 people theres a chance 1 or 2 may not have cheated but just lived in the same city and played don's all day

RosieTheGreat · 05-25-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMan77

The person says their name is xiandan....again xia

Xia and Xian are very very different.