Hey Everyone,

I have been playing on Bovada for about 4 years now. Since Black Friday, it's been my go to for tournaments and cash and up until now I have absolutely loved them. I am amazed at how fast a cash out check comes, regardless of the amount. I have always been very impressed with their customer service, up until now.

Here's what happened. last week I wanted to put more money on so I called to ask about a deposit method with my credit card. They helped through the situation and while on the phone said that I had quite a few bonuses available. I asked for what, they said a few different kinds and since none of them were poker, I said I would love to try the casino bonus.

Fast forward a few weeks, I had been grinding micro stakes and wanted a break. I remembered the casino bonus and went to the casino. The bonus was 50 dollars in casino money unlockable after X number of bets. Here's where things get messy:

I have played in their casino a few times, mostly black jack super low level just to play. Every time it has asked me to purchase chips from my poker money and put into my casino bank. After which, I have to then cash them back out to my poker bank. I have always had to do this when doing anything with the casino. On this occasion, when I went to play in the casino, I noticed the 50 dollars as well as the remainder of my poker money (this has never been the case), always had to purchase and acknowledge the money moving there prior to doing anything. I played probably 10 hands, and actually ran it up 20 bucks and decided I wanted to close out, and just play the balance on my original poker account. I go to cashier, weird, there's no money in Poker there. I go back to casino, weird, there's no way to transfer the money I had in poker to begin with (not to mention the money in the bonus and the money won).

I thought there must be some confusion, so I called them... talked to a phone rep, then a supervisor and they both said the money used in the casino is the money I had first, THEN any bonuses. I said I didn't have an acknowledgement of this prior to playing and they confirmed that I had played many times, but said the couldn't help me. There wasn't a ton of money on here, VERY LITTLE especially given how much I've played with them for 4 years now. Frustrated, I asked to speak to a supervisor and was given the same message. I asked her for her manager and was on hold for 5-7 minutes and they said no one was available.

I explained to her that I have been with them for years, and never had any problem before but she couldn't move my funds. I explained to her that I would be disputing the last deposit with my credit card and even though I didn't want to stop playing that this wasn't right. Keep in mind, again, we're talking about VERY LITTLE money here. Still nothing.

I wake up this morning, had an email from Bovada asking me to call the fraud department. I did, they wanted to know what they could do to help because they understood there was a lot of confusion. I spoke with a guy who was looking over my case and I explained to him what happened. He said anytime they hear the threat of chare back, they need to get involved. I explained that I didn't want to do this, I wanted to continue playing, but this wasn't right. I also explained that since they're not held to the same accountability due to being overseas, that this was my only course of restitution if they didnt want to help. He mentioned that even though they were over seas, they could still process collection efforts and damage my credit. I told him I wasn't interested in severing ties with them, and not having any issues with credit, but since everyone is telling me I couldn't be helped that if they didn't want to help, I would do that. He seemed very adimant that this would end badly for me if I did. I explained to him that I just wanted the funds put back into my poker roll and I wouldn't ever go for a bonus again.

I also conveyed that this "BONUS" was a bait and switch. I played roughly 10 hands at 5 dollars each and after that, I have .28% of my bonus back... so in other words, I would need to wager thousands to get it out fully. Not to mention the fact that my poker roll was used first. One thing to note, I have used their casino MANY times in the past. I have always had to PURCHASE chips then CASHOUT to go back and forth from casino to poker. This wasnt the case this time, everything was in my casino. As soon as I tried to take it out, it wasn't there. ***One other note***... I did NOT lose my money in the casino. I actually ran it up 65 more dollars and tried to just play poker with the remainder of what was in my account, according to Bovada that money was "used first" and wasn't accesible anymore.

I know, long post, sorry. Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? If so, what are my options? Secondly is it possible for them to pursue collections on a disputed charge (50 dollar range)?? Can they take legal action and/or can they affect my credit?

Thanks in advance for your help!!

oh yeah:

TL;DR: Made a deposit with Bovada. Was told I had a bonus, took the bonus. Bonus is complete bait and switch and in the process, used a large portion of my actual deposit. Threatening charge back.

Don't chargeback.

So i know whats your problem. As a regular casino player i noticed your problem. A few weeks ago they updated the software. Where as your whole roll plus your bonus roll goes into the casino.

Now this is probably what you did you took the roll thinking they were gonna play your bonus money but in actually they play your balance before the bonus. So you probably lost your original money then you played some of the bonus money to get back up and be up to $20. Because had you won the $20 with your original roll they would credit your account with $20 plus whatever your original roll was. But since you lost below your original roll and played into the bonus roll to get back up and be over $20 that is all consider your bonus money because you won it with bonus money and not your original roll.

Pretty much, although I didn't lose anything at first. I actually ran it up without a hit and tried to go back to playing poker. I have to be honest, I felt like this is a classic bait and switch, which is why I was so angry. Not sure if anyone else has had this same experience, but it wasn't explained well or at all to me and I had done this many times before whatever this update is.

Any reason other than the bad blood with the site? Not questioning your response at all, just trying to make sure I know what recourse both sides have in this situation.

As the last poster said, Bovada recently changed the way they handle balances and bonuses. The changes were made to screw over people used to the old system, and thus make Bovada more money.

A chargeback could make it difficult for you to play at offshore sites in the future. I would back off that threat for the moment and ask repeatedly that, given the recent changes to their system and your long standing history, that they please revert the state of your account to where it would have been had you deposited and not claimed any casino bonus. Keep repeating yourself, and eventually you may wear them down.

Good tactic. I actually used that same kind of jargon with the guy last night. He then started talking to me about chargebacks leading to collection efforts. I explained to him the association with out of country merchants and charge backs and his threats being empty regarding my credit. I'm going to continue to demand my request be met. At this point, it truly is a principle thing more than the money.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who got confused by this new change. And yes, it's 100% deceiving, right from the start.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll keep this post updated.

Most sites share information and if you tagged as someone who has done a chargeback, you're pretty much put in a "black book" and other sites can see this and could potentially not accept you as a customer, new or old.

dont chargeback

many sites casino bonuses have ridiculous wager requirements to clear. and many sites when a bonus is active u wager your real money before the bonus amount. read the fine print for casino bonuses most of them are not worth it for most people.

Don't chargeback!!! If the credit card company sees that you gambled with the money and are simply unhappy with a bonus policy, the CC company might decide that your claim is what is fraudulent.

I charged back a double charge on merge a couple years ago. They charged my card $99.and random change twice back to back. As a result I'm "black balled" on most sites except bovada. Even though I have sent proof that they charged my twice for money I only received once I'm still not allowed on their sites which is ok since bovada is where the tourney grind is anyway. In general support at these sites is operated by people of lower comprehension ability anyway.

My best guess would be you could play on other sites if you charge it back but not bovada. I highly doubt any claim against you would come after you do this simply because of the risk of the bank just blocking transaction from them! They still need to
Operate in the US under laws that are very fuzzy so I doubt your charge back would do anything other than ban you from site. Interesting decision if you are convinced you are right!

Seems reasonable. I wouldn't ever play the casino on Bovada or any other online site, LOL at ppl. feelsbadman

Mostly echoing what a few people have said, chargeback should only be a very last resort in any situation, and you always have to be extremely careful when it comes to casino bonuses - they are very rarely +EV these days.

I don't think having $50 charged back is worth getting blackballed by other US facing sites as well as Bovada "possible if the blackbook story is true". Could be years before any meaningful regulated poker is offered in most states. Already been stated, but it would be a red flag to your bank that you knowingly transferred money to a gambling site, putting them at risk.

You didn't actually lose the money, you said it's just stuck in the casino. You said you played there occasionally anyway, so just leave it in there, and if you want to play poker, deposit in poker. $50 is less than one buy-in, for any live small tourney, and barely enough to play anything but micro stake tourneys online.

The site I play most on is BOL, and all the regulars there say, avoid any casino/sports bonus. They don't have a poker reload bonus, but do for casino or sports. I cleared my poker bonus from my original deposit, but doubt I would ever be able to clear a casino bonus, because I'd probably lose the money long before I ever cleared it.

I think it would be fine to accept the sports/casino bonus if your planning on playing that, but if would be silly to accept the bonus if your intension is to play poker with that money.

I agree that you got screwed, as the fine print is confusing on those bonuses. Even if you read it, you likely could have made the same mistake, thinking you could play poker with the funds if you wanted.

I'd just take it as a lesson learned. Unfortunately all casino bonuses (even on regulated UK sites) work like this - if you accept a bonus your cash is essentially converted into casino chips with a huge wagering requirement before it becomes cash again.

It's terrible for the player, most people see the word bonus and think they're getting something for free, what they're actually doing is entering into an agreement to play a prohibitive amount of casino games before they see their money again.

I don't think you will get very far as long as you implicitly continue to threaten chargebacks (by saying that they can't hurt your credit etc.).

If you want to get this resolved, the best way (although it is obviously not how you really feel about it) is to back off completely from that chargeback topic, apologise for even mentioning it, saying that you misunderstood the terms and ask whether they'd consider a goodwill gesture of crediting your "poker balance" back (while voiding casino wins, if any).

Alternatively, bet it all on a long shot (single number on roulette or similar). You'll probably lose and can finally get over it, but if you win, grind out their wagering requirement (because then it might be worth it). Still, make sure to fully understand exclusion of specific games or types of bets.

Did you try to resolve it with them *before* starting chargeback procedures?

And did your bank really only charge back that second amount?

Absolutely, funny story, when I went into the bank to talk about the two transactions the girl told me that both transactions were from an oversees escort site(keep in mind this was three years ago when funding payment processors was a major problem), I had to tell her that one charge was legit and the other was a double charge. That embarrassment along with merges lack of looking into the obvious bank records I sent them made me just say **** trying to play there again. By the time I came to that conclusion it was already 6 months past the transaction date and I was not allowed to chargeback the legitimate payment just to say **** you merge.

I should have also been clearer..... I can still play on wpn and other us facing sites just can't use a credit card. So if I want to play there I just go to the player transfer thread!

did you ever resolve your charge back issue? If so what happened?