OK, so after Black Friday i have played on both these sites and many things are very suspicious about them. Firstly, you see the same people playing long sessions at standard times (payed by the sites?). On intertops you also see people playing as high as 5/10 but I thought that people who were playing for these kind of stakes had stopped playing or had moved outside of the country to play. This makes me think that they are people that are payed by the site to play. Finally, there is a huge number of bad beats on both these sites. I am not one of these people who complain about online poker being rigged (I played on FT and I never thought that something was wrong with it), but on these two sites the number of bad beats and 1st nuts vs 2nd nuts situations is insanely high. I think that I have lost more times all in pre-flop with AA against two random undercards than I have won and I have made the 2nd nuts (ex. straight) while the other guy makes the 1st nuts (ex. flash or higher straight). There have been situations that I have sucked out on people but they are way-way less that the situations that I have taken bad beats.

I want to make clear that this is not a "Internet Poker is rigged" thread but a thread questioning the reliability of these 2 sites. Finally if these sites where reliable then why don't the US pros play there instead of moving out of the country?

I'd like to hear what people with experience playing in these sites have to say. I also add that you can't really blame my beats to short term variance because I' ve played lots of hands.

Who said that Intertops is US only? Besides that the Cake network has prop players, not sure why that would be suspicious ... most poker sites have them these days to bring in some traffic.

wait are you sayingFT was rigged to?

Off topic -- but -- I just looked at BetOnline software and the bet amount numbers are so insanely small I almost need a magnifying glass to see them (with 67 year old eyes).

@topic: this might also help

***Intertops Poker - Official Support & Promotions Thread***

lol --

People play poker 'cause they like to play. LDO. Pro's in US there are none that really exist anymore .. takes weeks to months to get the cash off.

It's not variance, you suck at poker. LDO

If having links to the Gambino and Genovese crime families is okay, then BetOnline is 100% legit. Tell them Big Paulie from the Bronx sent ya!

So from what I understand from your responses BetOnline is legit, so I am gonna continue playing there.. By the way I didn't mean that having prop players is suspicious, what I questioned is whether these prop players have some kind of unfair advantage over you (ex. access to your cards, ability to pick turns and rivers etc.). But can someone tell me why if theses sites are legit, no famous pros play there and they instead choose to move out to other countries to play?

from this post alone, it's 100% clear why you can't win.

Care to explain what you mean?

I will quote the part he most likely meant for you:

And what do "famous pros" have to do with legit sites? Guess Full Tilt Poker has pretty much shown how much that can or can not actually be worth

If you can't trust a bunch of connected New York Mobsters, who can you trust?

I am not saying that having pros playing in a site means that the site is necessarily legit (FT example as you say). But all the players who play for a considerable amount of money have gone to Canada etc. to play. This means that they think that playing on PokerStars they have such a higher probability not to get f** in one way or another than the probability that they have by playing in BetOnline on Intertops or Cake etc, that it worths it moving out of the country to play there. My question is, if these sites are legit then why do they have such a low traffic and why is the overall impression that online poker is dead in the states now?

No, it means that they prefer the by far higher traffic on PokerStars to get enough volume in and also take advantage of the tournament schedule. Sites that still accept US players have to deal with a by far more difficult processing atmosphere, thus less money is getting on and off the sites, less cash flow = less traffic.

And the impression that online poker is dead in the US is actually due to the fact that the government was not able to legalize it fully so far to score some nice rake

Fair.. but then the question is why do the US pros who are still in the US not open accounts there. For example why doesn't Dwan or Ivey open an account at BetOnline? What do they have to lose?

Not legit, online poker is and never will be legit, ever since that damn bible was created the south has been rising, and rising and rising and rising and raising, and rising and rising

I advise ya as a friend to mind yer own business.

It would be a complete and utter waste of their time with the player pool size, and presumably no games at their limits. Plus, transactions of the size they'd be seeking would be a nightmare.

Really no great mystery here.

lol to the thousandth degree. Surprised Bobo Fett was able to answer this with a straight face.