Filter was set so a shortstacker is anyone below 26BB (so they don't dissapear after one squeeze or blind steal) . Nothing tricky about it to make it appear worse than it is. Anyways, I just wanted to point out that it is not only Stars and FTP that are bad in this respect.

Short stacking isn't bad in itself. It is the ability to constantly rathole that is the problem. Them being able to infinitely 'reset' their stack size to one that is close to optimal without any penalty is really bad for the health of the game.

I don't think things will change though. They are a rake army that makes the sites a lot of money. I would argue that the sites cater to them and they are growing into the core consumer base for the big sites. Hence I don't have any real hope of any site doing much to prevent ratholing.

LOL you chump.
Angle shooting is by definition bending or taking advantage of a quirk in the rules.

it's not that 20BB is optimal, it's just that being a 20BB stack among other 100BB stacks is advantageous
shortstacks should be limited to cap where everyone is at 30BB and all normal tables should be 50BB+

a SS can see all cards with only 10bb invested where as if a BS is up against another BS, it might costs him 50bbs

For people saying shorties generate a lot of rake...

FT does not take rake when there is no flop. So the SSers pay much less rake per hundred hands than a regular player (because they are basically either trying to steal the blinds, or trying to steal a raise, without seeing a flop). What's worse is that they get allocated the same share of the table rake as everyone else, even though they hardly contribute.

If the micro guys love SSers, I couldn't care less if those tables are left alone. But it sounds to me that most 1/2 players want 40+bb BIs, and an even higher percentage of 2/4+ players want 40+bbs. Because as you play for more serious money, the less you want jokers around ruining the games.

Also, think about how much of our time the SSers are wasting. Below are two examples:

* SSer opens from utg in a FR game. You are in mp with 77. You can't call, you can't raise, so you fold. If everone folds, FT makes no money. But if a full stack opens utg, you can call from mp. AND FT takes a rake.
* you raise from CO with J9s, and SSer stares at 77 from the BB. The SSer will shove, while a full stack probably calls (with an occasional 3bet). The CO has to fold to a shove by a SS, and again, your time is wasted and FT makes no money.

In a nutshell, SSers waste our time (because we can't play hands we would otherwise play) and they cause FT not to take a rake. Time is money to both the player and FT. The more we are allowed to play meaningful hands (per hour), the better it will be for the player and FT.

Of course they pay loads of rake since they play a huge amount of tables in relation to their general poker skill. Basically they can be up and 10+ table a week after 'learning' poker.

If the ability to rathole would be removed or min buyin raised significantly they would either start playing full stack (on fewer tables) or stop playing. Both would hurt the sites income quite a bit.

Yeah, that's why I suggested sticking to one weekend to begin with, so that the EV loss isn't so bad with being effectively unable to table select etc.

Ty, and got it.

I mean it's full ring.

If you want to play poker, there are 6max tables for that.

in all honesty the more people that mke threads like this educating losing players about shortstackingis just going to increase the shortstackers.... i for one learned that shortstackin could be profitable from all the hate on these forums.... i strictly play mtts fwiw but if i did play cash and was a losing or break even player i would try shortstacking for sure.... just some food for tho0ught

Quite right.

In the FTP Answers threads, FTPDoug

So, we have to look into the problem from the view of FTP.

What could be good in banning the shortys and what could be gone terrible wrong?

The good thing would be, the small community of Regs would be happy.

The even thing: The big community of normal players wouldnt notice.

The bad thing: The midsize community of shorty would be angry and leave the site.

The bad thing: The regs from other sites join the small stack free site.

The bad thing: The big community of normal players lose more and more vs the regs everywhere.

The bad thing: Now the normaler players find only hard tables and leave the site.

The bad thing: The regs find not enough fish and leave the site.

Exactly!

This would be perfect.