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03-21-2012, 11:57 AM   #106
old hand

Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,430
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by skraper My chart accurately shows the effective rakeback for the currently available bonuses. You said it did not do this. You have changed from saying my chart is inaccurate to saying that the term "pretty baller" is inaccurate.
Here is information we need for accurate rakeback calculations
A - Value of a combat point.
B - Items available in the store. (cash bonus would be preferable but if it is only items then you lose value here)
C - How quickly combat points are earned at each level.
D - Milestone bonuses.

So thank you very much for giving us 1 of the 4 pieces of necessary data to calculate rakeback and for creating a conclusion based upon the data you supplied us.

03-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #107
journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 207
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by EnderFFX Here is information we need for accurate rakeback calculations A - Value of a combat point. B - Items available in the store. (cash bonus would be preferable but if it is only items then you lose value here) C - How quickly combat points are earned at each level. D - Milestone bonuses. So thank you very much for giving us 1 of the 4 pieces of necessary data to calculate rakeback and for creating a conclusion based upon the data you supplied us.
I pretty much agree, but I think A and B are one in the same. The value of a CB is dependent on the value of the items in the store. I disagree that Items instead of cash are necessarily a loss (although they probably are). An extreme example: if you could get a car for 1 cb, or \$100 for a combat point, then then the item would be worth more. If the value of the physical items == to the a cash item, then no value is lost. Of course this wont be the case, and there's some subjectivity to the value of various items anyway.

 03-21-2012, 08:21 PM #108 veteran     Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: ACME Manufacturing Plant Posts: 2,393 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) I got email that said Elite Benefits Store was open...
 03-21-2012, 10:41 PM #109 grinder     Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 405 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) Yes it is. Feels like Christmas Time
03-22-2012, 12:50 AM   #110
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 6g1p
Posts: 9,342
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by EnderFFX Here is information we need for accurate rakeback calculations A - Value of a combat point. B - Items available in the store. (cash bonus would be preferable but if it is only items then you lose value here) C - How quickly combat points are earned at each level. D - Milestone bonuses. So thank you very much for giving us 1 of the 4 pieces of necessary data to calculate rakeback and for creating a conclusion based upon the data you supplied us.
You're changing your argument again.

We already know C, D and some of B. We do not know A.

I did not make a conclusion on how good or bad the VIP system would be. I said that the store needed to be "pretty baller" to make the VIP better. Many people, you might even say MOST people, would agree that "pretty baller" can be interpreted as "represent a significant amount of value".

You are welcome for doing the work to determine the value of the bonuses for which we had enough information to do so.

---------------------------------

With the store now available, we can now make the calculations for the Cash bonuses.

For a player raking appx \$2k/month and starting the year at a Colonel level. The VIP system is worth appx 28%-30% rakeback.

For the same player starting as a General, the VIP system is worth about 34%-36% rakeback.

This is assuming you spend all of your points at the end of the year, and buy the largest bonuses possible. The rakeback numbers are also on a dealt method. Which means that for most players, 28% is is more than 1% better than the WC 27% rakeback.

The system only becomes "MUCH" (@Ender - please note that the term MUCH is a subjective word) better if you are able to unlock the 200k milestone/distinction bonus.

Also, in 2012, players will have less time to accrue RP and CP. Since the milestone/achievement/distinction bonuses are based on the calendar year, many players will miss out on a bonus that they would get in a "normal/full" year.

For a player raking \$1k/month, the VIP system is worth appx 22% rakeback.

Last edited by skraper; 03-22-2012 at 01:08 AM.

03-22-2012, 12:09 PM   #111
old hand

Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,430
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by skraper You're changing your argument again. We already know C, D and some of B. We do not know A. I did not make a conclusion on how good or bad the VIP system would be. I said that the store needed to be "pretty baller" to make the VIP better. Many people, you might even say MOST people, would agree that "pretty baller" can be interpreted as "represent a significant amount of value". You are welcome for doing the work to determine the value of the bonuses for which we had enough information to do so. --------------------------------- With the store now available, we can now make the calculations for the Cash bonuses. For a player raking appx \$2k/month and starting the year at a Colonel level. The VIP system is worth appx 28%-30% rakeback. For the same player starting as a General, the VIP system is worth about 34%-36% rakeback. This is assuming you spend all of your points at the end of the year, and buy the largest bonuses possible. The rakeback numbers are also on a dealt method. Which means that for most players, 28% is is more than 1% better than the WC 27% rakeback. The system only becomes "MUCH" (@Ender - please note that the term MUCH is a subjective word) better if you are able to unlock the 200k milestone/distinction bonus. Also, in 2012, players will have less time to accrue RP and CP. Since the milestone/achievement/distinction bonuses are based on the calendar year, many players will miss out on a bonus that they would get in a "normal/full" year. For a player raking \$1k/month, the VIP system is worth appx 22% rakeback.
Dude!!! Just having a bit of fun with you

Seriously, thank you for the information, I've been looking for a card room since PStars locked out Americans and I'm seriously considering America's Card Room. I'm a casual player but I still kind of want the option of a bigger rakeback %'s later if I become serious.

03-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #112
adept

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,124
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by skraper You're changing your argument again. We already know C, D and some of B. We do not know A. I did not make a conclusion on how good or bad the VIP system would be. I said that the store needed to be "pretty baller" to make the VIP better. Many people, you might even say MOST people, would agree that "pretty baller" can be interpreted as "represent a significant amount of value". You are welcome for doing the work to determine the value of the bonuses for which we had enough information to do so. --------------------------------- With the store now available, we can now make the calculations for the Cash bonuses. For a player raking appx \$2k/month and starting the year at a Colonel level. The VIP system is worth appx 28%-30% rakeback. For the same player starting as a General, the VIP system is worth about 34%-36% rakeback. This is assuming you spend all of your points at the end of the year, and buy the largest bonuses possible. The rakeback numbers are also on a dealt method. Which means that for most players, 28% is is more than 1% better than the WC 27% rakeback. The system only becomes "MUCH" (@Ender - please note that the term MUCH is a subjective word) better if you are able to unlock the 200k milestone/distinction bonus. Also, in 2012, players will have less time to accrue RP and CP. Since the milestone/achievement/distinction bonuses are based on the calendar year, many players will miss out on a bonus that they would get in a "normal/full" year. For a player raking \$1k/month, the VIP system is worth appx 22% rakeback.
nothing personal here & definately no accusations, but, your #'s make absolutely no sense whatsoever; and to make the proclamation that 28% dealt rake would be only 1% better than 27% wc rake is so ludicrous I don't even know where to begin.

 03-25-2012, 01:32 AM #113 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 6g1p Posts: 9,342 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) I said that 28% dealt rakeback would be more than 1% better for most players. As for the rest of my numbers, not sure what doesn't make sense about them. I didn't post my calculation this time around bc the math is less straight forward than just calculating the achievement rewards. It matters what rank you are to start the year bc you earn CP faster at higher ranks. So the longer you have been consistently raking high amounts, the higher your effective rakeback is. Last edited by skraper; 03-25-2012 at 01:37 AM.
03-25-2012, 01:47 AM   #114
adept

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,124
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by skraper I said that 28% dealt rakeback would be more than 1% better for most players. As for the rest of my numbers, not sure what doesn't make sense about them. I didn't post my calculation this time around bc the math is less straight forward than just calculating the achievement rewards. It matters what rank you are to start the year bc you earn CP faster at higher ranks. So the longer you have been consistently raking high amounts, the higher your effective rakeback is.
I read the post just fine. As far as the rest, you use certain rake amounts to come to your stated numbers. You also already assume that the year has already started into the program. Soooooo, you can obviously assume starting at zero at either January 1st or whenever you so choose. Either way, you are still making assertations based on, if I remember correctly, 1k & 2k raking amounts per month.

Since you now contend that you can't figure it out with out a start date...which start date did you use before admitting you don't truly grasp what you are talking about?

For instance, if nothing else, the difference between dealt rake & wc rake as it may or may not apply towards "vip" benefits/programs rests in a large amount on the stakes one plays. Or, rather, the stakes one can afford to play. With dealt rake, it becomes more profititable to play higher limits in that the rake will be higher and you participate even when folding.

Cheers,
John

 03-25-2012, 07:18 AM #115 Zero wave are madmen     Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Broadcasting Minor League Hockey! Posts: 61,515 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) Jam, you most certainly did not read it fine. You clearly read his post wrong. You are being annoying so please knock it off.
03-27-2012, 08:22 AM   #116
adept

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,124
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jamthe3 nothing personal here & definately no accusations, but, your #'s make absolutely no sense whatsoever; and to make the proclamation that 28% dealt rake would be only 1% better than 27% wc rake is so ludicrous I don't even know where to begin.
Skraper,

Hey, maybe i did read it wrong. But it looked to me like if you start the year @ colonel and rake \$2k/mo you'll accumalate 27,500 cp's. @ 25k cp's for \$600 that's 30% right there of Dealt rakeback without waiting 'till the end of the year at which time you'd still have a balance of an additional 30k cp's. That's not taking into account the milestone things either which would minutely change the 30k at the end of the year but also add more percentage through out it.

I take it for granted even as a true loose fish myself that the exact same hands played under 27% wc rakeback wouldn't generate anywhere near that \$600, but it does depend on ones style I guess.

Also, yes I did miss the "more than 1%" you stated not only the first time but the second time when you pointed it out also...I do apologize for that. Probably had a short fuse from another issue on my mind and let it creep into my thought process; not that its really all that strong to begin with anyway. I'm curious if its possible to achieve & maintain a colonel ranking to begin with myself on this site given the traffic, but am really giving strong consideration to giving it a shot.

Cheers,
John

 03-28-2012, 07:37 PM #117 centurion   Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 145 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) I'll freely admit that I'm not smart enough to calculate the difference of 27% rakeback with the WC method versus say reaching colonel level with the dealt method. For those of you that have been discussing the calculations, can you all agree that if one were able to reach colonel status, that switching over to the new system with the dealt method would be a better benefit than the current flat 27 % rakeback?
03-28-2012, 11:03 PM   #118
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 6g1p
Posts: 9,342
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jamthe3 Skraper, Hey, maybe i did read it wrong. But it looked to me like if you start the year @ colonel and rake \$2k/mo you'll accumalate 27,500 cp's. @ 25k cp's for \$600 that's 30% right there of Dealt rakeback without waiting 'till the end of the year at which time you'd still have a balance of an additional 30k cp's. That's not taking into account the milestone things either which would minutely change the 30k at the end of the year but also add more percentage through out it. I take it for granted even as a true loose fish myself that the exact same hands played under 27% wc rakeback wouldn't generate anywhere near that \$600, but it does depend on ones style I guess. Also, yes I did miss the "more than 1%" you stated not only the first time but the second time when you pointed it out also...I do apologize for that. Probably had a short fuse from another issue on my mind and let it creep into my thought process; not that its really all that strong to begin with anyway. I'm curious if its possible to achieve & maintain a colonel ranking to begin with myself on this site given the traffic, but am really giving strong consideration to giving it a shot. Cheers, John

Hero rakes \$2000 per month
11000 RP per month – 132k per year
Generals Rank
START year at COLONEL

100k RP Bonus = \$1,200
1200/24k rake = 5% RB

Achieve General at start of 10th month
9 months @ 11k RP x Colonel Multiplier = 247,500 CP
3 months @ 11k RP x General Multiplier = 115,500 CP
363,000 CP total

1CP = \$0.016 when purchasing biggest bonus
363,000*0.016 = \$5808

\$5808/\$24000 = 24.2%
Total = 29.2% RB

Cliffs:
Achievement Rewards + Legendary Bonus = 5% RB
Store Bonuses = 24.2% RB
Total RB = 29.2% RB

Last edited by skraper; 03-28-2012 at 11:09 PM.

03-28-2012, 11:50 PM   #119
adept

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,124
Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by skraper Hero rakes \$2000 per month 11000 RP per month – 132k per year Generals Rank START year at COLONEL 100k RP Bonus = \$1,200 1200/24k rake = 5% RB Achieve General at start of 10th month 9 months @ 11k RP x Colonel Multiplier = 247,500 CP 3 months @ 11k RP x General Multiplier = 115,500 CP 363,000 CP total 1CP = \$0.016 when purchasing biggest bonus 363,000*0.016 = \$5808 \$5808/\$24000 = 24.2% Total = 29.2% RB Cliffs: Achievement Rewards + Legendary Bonus = 5% RB Store Bonuses = 24.2% RB Total RB = 29.2% RB
I don't know, on their thread the rep posted a screenshot showing the 25k buying the \$600 bonus...are you not allowed to buy more than one a year like the achievement thingys?

I don't know that it matters, i'm finding it hard to believe its possible to do the 2k/mo without playing nosebleed (at least for me, lol) stakes anyways

 03-30-2012, 06:59 PM #120 Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 6g1p Posts: 9,342 Re: America's Cardroom becomes the new PokerStars (in a good way) 25k buys the \$300 bonus

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