$51,200 on 4Donk Poker, Told I'm Never Going to See It
Hey guys. First of all, I want to clarify that this thread is being created for the sake of informing the poker community about this situation and declaring all of the facts. I will give my opinion but the important thing is that this becomes public knowledge so that players fully know the risks they're taking when dealing with particular networks/skins/people. Hopefully we can generate more information about the issue and eventually sort out the best line of action for potentially recovering some of our money as I know multiple people in the same situation.
For people interested in the story but find it tl;dr, just skip over the Skype chats for the summary. However, the chatlogs are certainly both very interesting and relevant.
On June 27, 2012 I started an account on 4Donk Poker. For those not familiar with it, 4Donk is a platform website that lets you play on multiple networks with the same bankroll (ie. it lets you move money from site to site conveniently through their website.) I was referred to it by an acquaintance as a means of playing on multiple networks with added security regarding my money. At the time, networks like Cake/Merge/Everleaf/ENet all seemed a tad risky to play on and I assumed that provided this site had legitimacy, it could be an extra safety net if one of the sites were to start having payment issues. Plus, it was convenient.
I didn't log much volume on these sites over the next 9 months but I did make roughly $25k-$30k in withdrawals that all went relatively smoothly. There were frequently some mishaps that had some money of mine disappear but any of those problems were fairly quickly resolved. However, this should have been my first clue that it wasn't a safe and secure environment for anyone to keep a significant amount of money.
During this time, the person I was in touch with regarding withdrawals and any other issues was "Bjorn". I later learned that he's co-owner of 4Donk Poker which appears to be a project of YooGaming, a marketing/consulting company that Bjorn is also affiliated with (not sure if he's an owner). He was very helpful through this time with resolving any of my issues and updating me on withdrawals.
By February of 2013, I pretty much had drifted from logging any hands on 4Donk as they were offering less networks and I'd realized it wasn't a place I felt comfortable having a lot of money. With the payment issues occuring on some of the networks they deal with, I was told by an acquaintance that it was a good idea to just withdraw my funds and play elsewhere. But to keep on the priority list for withdrawals, I did continue to play some hands on the Revolution network for the sake of not having a stagnant account in the event that this may delay withdrawals.
On March 13th and March 19th of 2013, I made withdrawals of €10,000 (totalling €20,000) and also had €19,552 left in my account waiting to be withdrawn. ($51,200 USD Total.) I'd completely halted any play on 4Donk and was simply waiting for the money while frequently looking for updates from Bjorn regarding the withdrawals.
During the next 6 weeks, I continually looked for updates from Bjorn and he continually gave me random excuses but ensuring that my money is safe and that his clients always get paid.
[15/04/2013 9:29:18 PM] Sean Lefort: hey Bjorn.. any idea how long my 10k withdrawals are going to wait?
[18/04/2013 11:37:31 AM] Sean Lefort: hey bjorn.. any ideas when i may start seeing the 10k cashouts? been almost a month now
[20/04/2013 1:03:22 PM] Sean Lefort: Hey Bjorn, hope things are well.. just looking to touch base regarding my withdrawals.
[22/04/2013 9:29:52 AM] Sean Lefort: Bjorn?
[23/04/2013 7:59:18 AM] Sean Lefort: Hey Bjorn.. I'm sorry but if I'm not going to get any more responses from you I'm going to have to contact both Malta LGA and Skrill Investigations to begin looking into my withdrawals (as I've had to do in the past). I don't want to have to do this but they're now at 5 and 6wks and I'm really starting to worry about my money. Please contact me if you have any information regarding my withdrawals within the next few days before I have to start resorting to legal means. Thanks, Sean.
[23/04/2013 7:59:48 AM] Bjorn: hey sean i will tell you soon i was just waiting for some update
[23/04/2013 7:59:54 AM] Bjorn: i will get back to you
[23/04/2013 8:00:01 AM] Bjorn: you can however contact lga anytime you like
[23/04/2013 8:00:07 AM] Bjorn: and i suggest you to do so
[23/04/2013 8:00:14 AM] Bjorn: however just give me a couple of days
[23/04/2013 8:00:21 AM] Bjorn: i'm in same situation as you
[23/04/2013 8:00:31 AM] Bjorn: i was just waiting to find a solution in the meantime
[23/04/2013 8:00:32 AM] Bjorn: thanks
[23/04/2013 8:03:10 AM] Bjorn: if you're sending the complaint please send it to complaints@lga.org.mt claiming that you were playing on 4donk whose licencee is POKERINVENICE and they haven't paid you within the stipulated time
[23/04/2013 8:03:30 AM] Bjorn: better send the complaint cause those are the payments tackled first
[23/04/2013 8:03:50 AM] Bjorn: we have been sending all the time to the payment provider POKERINVENICE to settle any outstanding players
[23/04/2013 8:25:03 AM] Sean Lefort: okay, thanks
You can see that he seemed to neglect my msgs at this point until I mentioned the LGA and Skrill investigations at which point he responded within 30 seconds. He was very quick to point out that I should complain about POKERINVENICE specifically, and not 4Donk. It was at this point that I did contact both the Malta LGA as well as Skrill VIP Investigations regarding the withdrawals and informed them of the situation. Until this point, I've not heard back from them other than confirmation of receiving my e-mails.
[08/05/2013 1:25:21 AM] Bjorn: hey sean the matter is not 4donk - as i have always told you 4donk is just a skin on the pivgame network - even though 4donk is just a skin ( a skin is supposed to do marketing and advertising for the licencee) however we're still moving part of the player balances to other operators who are paying players in the proper payout times i.e. 2-3 day times. ...... "one thing I can assure you that one way or another I will get your funds paid as I always did with all of my clients and that is a guarante. That is what kept us always going nontheless the difficulties of recent gaming networks."
...
[08/05/2013 9:51:11 AM] Bjorn: yeah as you wish sean still skin hierarchy everybody knows how it works - however the idea is that you get your money - so if you want to get your money just stay shhh about 4donk let's just be practical
[08/05/2013 9:51:15 AM] Bjorn: however about pivgame
[08/05/2013 9:51:20 AM] Bjorn: please write whatever you like
At this point he presented me with their "solution" of moving the money to a new skin where I would have to rake 2x the amount before I can withdraw it. Ie. for my case, I would need to rake $102,400. Given my low volume and the lack of high stakes games on the network, this was clearly and absurd and unacceptable resolution for me.
Bjorn tells me that none of this is 4Donk's responsibility and that they are owed "10x" as much as me. He tells me that they didn't feel as though there was any risk dealing with PIV and that he always thought player accounts would be safe. It's at this point that I point out to him that his site is still taking deposits and how shady that is. He did quickly take that option off of the website once I told him about it.
[13/05/2013 3:51:29 PM] Sean Lefort: so when 4donk was functioning and taking deposits, you guys honestly believe there was 0% risk that any of these licensees wouldn't pay?
[13/05/2013 3:52:06 PM] Bjorn: finally these operators are controlled monthly by the licenced authority
[13/05/2013 3:52:13 PM] Bjorn: that should balance the funds every month
[13/05/2013 3:52:19 PM] Bjorn: so why sould anyone think differently
[13/05/2013 3:52:40 PM] Bjorn: some thoughts came but when we checked we always got the ok
[13/05/2013 3:52:43 PM] Bjorn: so we kept on going
...
[13/05/2013 3:58:46 PM] Bjorn: just leave 4donk
[13/05/2013 3:58:54 PM] Bjorn: you're in love with mentioning 4donk
[13/05/2013 3:58:57 PM] Bjorn: mention pokerxed
[13/05/2013 3:58:59 PM] Bjorn: they closed
[13/05/2013 3:59:02 PM] Bjorn: they dont give a heck
[13/05/2013 3:59:06 PM] Bjorn: and it's exact situation
[13/05/2013 3:59:10 PM] Bjorn: and say like i tell you
[13/05/2013 3:59:24 PM] Bjorn: write I was playing on a pivgame skin operated
[13/05/2013 3:59:35 PM] Bjorn: by Poker in Venice and administered by Mr. Cesare Florio
[13/05/2013 3:59:45 PM] Bjorn: who apparently is planning to run away
[13/05/2013 3:59:51 PM] Bjorn: with player funds
[13/05/2013 3:59:57 PM] Bjorn: He has not been paying for months
[13/05/2013 4:00:06 PM] Bjorn: and there is no answer back
[13/05/2013 4:00:10 PM] Sean Lefort: the situation is that i started playing on 4donk, made deposits, played.. and now i have $53,000 in my 4donk account that I'm being told I will never see
[13/05/2013 4:00:17 PM] Sean Lefort: that seems like information the poker community should know
[13/05/2013 4:00:27 PM] Bjorn: so im telling you the real things
[13/05/2013 4:00:30 PM] Bjorn: the poker community
[13/05/2013 4:00:36 PM] Bjorn: doesnt know a heck of what happens
[13/05/2013 4:00:40 PM] Bjorn: in the legislation here
[13/05/2013 4:00:46 PM] Bjorn: and more and more with lga in malta
[13/05/2013 4:00:51 PM] Bjorn: however write whatever you like
[13/05/2013 4:00:55 PM] Bjorn: yes that is 2+2
[13/05/2013 4:01:00 PM] Bjorn: everybody writing things
[13/05/2013 4:01:07 PM] Bjorn: whithout arriving 10% next to the real situation
[13/05/2013 4:01:15 PM] Bjorn: of course i can;t stop you from what you write
[13/05/2013 4:01:31 PM] Sean Lefort: okay thanks
[13/05/2013 4:02:14 PM] Bjorn: ]just do me a favour
[13/05/2013 4:02:17 PM] Bjorn: don paste my chats
[13/05/2013 4:02:22 PM] Bjorn: and dont put my name
[13/05/2013 4:02:32 PM] Sean Lefort: why? you didn't do anything wrong
[13/05/2013 4:02:44 PM] Bjorn: yes of course
[13/05/2013 4:02:52 PM] Bjorn: i'm telling you leave me out of the search engines
[13/05/2013 4:03:05 PM] Bjorn: i have reputable business here
[13/05/2013 4:03:17 PM] Bjorn: and dont want to get bad rep for something that i didnt do
[13/05/2013 4:03:28 PM] Sean Lefort: i'm not going to tell people that you did anything wrong
[13/05/2013 4:03:35 PM] Sean Lefort: i'm going to tell them what happened
[13/05/2013 4:03:43 PM] Sean Lefort: they're going to decide for themselves
...
[13/05/2013 4:26:40 PM] Bjorn: dont worry this thing happened
[13/05/2013 4:26:42 PM] Bjorn: 20 times
[13/05/2013 4:26:47 PM] Bjorn: in the last couple of years]
[13/05/2013 4:26:52 PM] Bjorn: unfortunately
[13/05/2013 4:26:58 PM] Bjorn: the authorities just close an eye
[13/05/2013 4:27:04 PM] Bjorn: and these things continue to happen
[13/05/2013 4:27:13 PM] Bjorn: everleaf has been bankrup for 3 years
[13/05/2013 4:27:18 PM] Bjorn: abnd it's still ive
[13/05/2013 4:27:22 PM] Bjorn: you can imagine the situation
[13/05/2013 4:27:56 PM] Sean Lefort: so if this has happened 20 times before.. why would 4donk take all these deposits from clients without warning them that there is some risk of this happening? that seems incredibly deceiptful..
[13/05/2013 4:28:04 PM] Bjorn: eh?
[13/05/2013 4:28:08 PM] Bjorn: but if i didnt take the money
[13/05/2013 4:28:14 PM] Bjorn: this guy at piv
It's at this point a few days ago that I'm told by Bjorn the final verdict is that PIV has come to an agreement with the LGA that they will move all funds to a skin where players will have to rake 2x the amount to get credit and receive withdrawals. There is no other alternative and thus for me, I won't be seeing my money.
[23/05/2013 4:47:14 PM] Sean Lefort: so are you going to move to something else like finance or a different business?
[23/05/2013 4:47:20 PM] Sean Lefort: or did you go to school for something
[23/05/2013 4:47:58 PM] Bjorn: eh hehe no for now not
[23/05/2013 4:48:04 PM] Bjorn: we have one of the major
[23/05/2013 4:48:10 PM] Bjorn: web and marketing companies
[23/05/2013 4:48:12 PM] Bjorn: on the island
[23/05/2013 4:48:26 PM] Bjorn: + we do consultation and company setups here in malta
[23/05/2013 4:48:33 PM] Bjorn: skinning is just one of our areas
[23/05/2013 4:48:46 PM] Bjorn: unfortunately its a sector where you depend
[23/05/2013 4:48:54 PM] Bjorn: from operators and there you dont have much control
[23/05/2013 4:48:59 PM] Bjorn: like it happened in this case
[23/05/2013 4:49:18 PM] Bjorn: when it is like that we can't perform our normal diligence as we are used to do it
[23/05/2013 4:49:23 PM] Bjorn: when we run our own things
[23/05/2013 4:50:12 PM] Bjorn: if we used to do only skins we would be out of business for ages cause margins are too low
[23/05/2013 4:50:19 PM] Bjorn: and risks have become very big
[23/05/2013 4:51:03 PM] Sean Lefort: yoogaming is going to get a terrible reputation for all this bjorn.. you can't just lose 52k of someone's money (regardless of who's fault it is) and have that person not care about telling the world about every detail.. its complete irresponsibility and everybody will soon know every single detail that has occured to me
[23/05/2013 4:51:17 PM] Sean Lefort: i dont want to hear any more excuses about how its' not your fault, im not getting my 52k, and people are going to hear why
[23/05/2013 4:51:20 PM] Sean Lefort: and who's involved
[23/05/2013 4:51:28 PM] Bjorn: ye you can lie as much as you like
[23/05/2013 4:51:33 PM] Bjorn: from my side i just know
[23/05/2013 4:51:40 PM] Bjorn: that i always assisted you
[23/05/2013 4:51:43 PM] Bjorn: and risked money
[23/05/2013 4:51:47 PM] Sean Lefort: i wont be lying at all, i'm going to put together every piece of information that i have
[23/05/2013 4:51:50 PM] Bjorn: to get you the most i could from piv
[23/05/2013 4:51:57 PM] Bjorn: you can say everything you like of course
[23/05/2013 4:52:04 PM] Bjorn: of course it wont be the truth
[23/05/2013 4:52:09 PM] Bjorn: but YES YOU CAN
[23/05/2013 4:52:19 PM] Bjorn: however i understand your feelings
[23/05/2013 4:52:23 PM] Bjorn: and cant blame you for that
Lastly, I have screenshots of confirmation that PIV is still taking deposits and ensuring that the money will always be safe, secure, and able to be withdrawn. I asked if I could deposit as much as $10k and they were very happy about accepting that deposit.
So it's quite clear the PIV is incredibly scummy and keeping any money with any company that's even dealing with them in any capacity is most likely a big mistake. What's not clear to me yet is the details of the relationships between PIV and 4Donk and YooGaming and who else is scummy and/or stealing people's money. Hopefully this thread helps formulate some conclusions on that end.
At the very least, I find it appauling that 4Donk feels zero moral responsibility for this money given that they knew PIV was a shady company to be dealing with and yet they still accepted deposits up until I told them they shouldn't be and how shady it looked. I'm not looking to point fingers at 4Donk/YooGaming for stealing money because obviously there's no proof of that. But there's certainly proof of them being irresponsible as company operators and it would be my strong suggestion to everyone to not trust them with your money in any shape or form, as you can see how that worked out for me.
There are various other people I know in similar situations as me that I've been in contact with throughout all of this and they'll likely join this thread and have things to add. Hopefully anyone else with money withheld by these companies will come out from the woodworks so we can work together towards formulating a plan to see some of our money back. I don't share much optimism with regards to seeing any of it back, but at least this thread should help in raising the community's awareness about these companies.
For people interested in the story but find it tl;dr, just skip over the Skype chats for the summary. However, the chatlogs are certainly both very interesting and relevant.
On June 27, 2012 I started an account on 4Donk Poker. For those not familiar with it, 4Donk is a platform website that lets you play on multiple networks with the same bankroll (ie. it lets you move money from site to site conveniently through their website.) I was referred to it by an acquaintance as a means of playing on multiple networks with added security regarding my money. At the time, networks like Cake/Merge/Everleaf/ENet all seemed a tad risky to play on and I assumed that provided this site had legitimacy, it could be an extra safety net if one of the sites were to start having payment issues. Plus, it was convenient.
I didn't log much volume on these sites over the next 9 months but I did make roughly $25k-$30k in withdrawals that all went relatively smoothly. There were frequently some mishaps that had some money of mine disappear but any of those problems were fairly quickly resolved. However, this should have been my first clue that it wasn't a safe and secure environment for anyone to keep a significant amount of money.
During this time, the person I was in touch with regarding withdrawals and any other issues was "Bjorn". I later learned that he's co-owner of 4Donk Poker which appears to be a project of YooGaming, a marketing/consulting company that Bjorn is also affiliated with (not sure if he's an owner). He was very helpful through this time with resolving any of my issues and updating me on withdrawals.
By February of 2013, I pretty much had drifted from logging any hands on 4Donk as they were offering less networks and I'd realized it wasn't a place I felt comfortable having a lot of money. With the payment issues occuring on some of the networks they deal with, I was told by an acquaintance that it was a good idea to just withdraw my funds and play elsewhere. But to keep on the priority list for withdrawals, I did continue to play some hands on the Revolution network for the sake of not having a stagnant account in the event that this may delay withdrawals.
On March 13th and March 19th of 2013, I made withdrawals of €10,000 (totalling €20,000) and also had €19,552 left in my account waiting to be withdrawn. ($51,200 USD Total.) I'd completely halted any play on 4Donk and was simply waiting for the money while frequently looking for updates from Bjorn regarding the withdrawals.
During the next 6 weeks, I continually looked for updates from Bjorn and he continually gave me random excuses but ensuring that my money is safe and that his clients always get paid.
[15/04/2013 9:29:18 PM] Sean Lefort: hey Bjorn.. any idea how long my 10k withdrawals are going to wait?
[18/04/2013 11:37:31 AM] Sean Lefort: hey bjorn.. any ideas when i may start seeing the 10k cashouts? been almost a month now
[20/04/2013 1:03:22 PM] Sean Lefort: Hey Bjorn, hope things are well.. just looking to touch base regarding my withdrawals.
[22/04/2013 9:29:52 AM] Sean Lefort: Bjorn?
[23/04/2013 7:59:18 AM] Sean Lefort: Hey Bjorn.. I'm sorry but if I'm not going to get any more responses from you I'm going to have to contact both Malta LGA and Skrill Investigations to begin looking into my withdrawals (as I've had to do in the past). I don't want to have to do this but they're now at 5 and 6wks and I'm really starting to worry about my money. Please contact me if you have any information regarding my withdrawals within the next few days before I have to start resorting to legal means. Thanks, Sean.
[23/04/2013 7:59:48 AM] Bjorn: hey sean i will tell you soon i was just waiting for some update
[23/04/2013 7:59:54 AM] Bjorn: i will get back to you
[23/04/2013 8:00:01 AM] Bjorn: you can however contact lga anytime you like
[23/04/2013 8:00:07 AM] Bjorn: and i suggest you to do so
[23/04/2013 8:00:14 AM] Bjorn: however just give me a couple of days
[23/04/2013 8:00:21 AM] Bjorn: i'm in same situation as you
[23/04/2013 8:00:31 AM] Bjorn: i was just waiting to find a solution in the meantime
[23/04/2013 8:00:32 AM] Bjorn: thanks
[23/04/2013 8:03:10 AM] Bjorn: if you're sending the complaint please send it to complaints@lga.org.mt claiming that you were playing on 4donk whose licencee is POKERINVENICE and they haven't paid you within the stipulated time
[23/04/2013 8:03:30 AM] Bjorn: better send the complaint cause those are the payments tackled first
[23/04/2013 8:03:50 AM] Bjorn: we have been sending all the time to the payment provider POKERINVENICE to settle any outstanding players
[23/04/2013 8:25:03 AM] Sean Lefort: okay, thanks
You can see that he seemed to neglect my msgs at this point until I mentioned the LGA and Skrill investigations at which point he responded within 30 seconds. He was very quick to point out that I should complain about POKERINVENICE specifically, and not 4Donk. It was at this point that I did contact both the Malta LGA as well as Skrill VIP Investigations regarding the withdrawals and informed them of the situation. Until this point, I've not heard back from them other than confirmation of receiving my e-mails.
[08/05/2013 1:25:21 AM] Bjorn: hey sean the matter is not 4donk - as i have always told you 4donk is just a skin on the pivgame network - even though 4donk is just a skin ( a skin is supposed to do marketing and advertising for the licencee) however we're still moving part of the player balances to other operators who are paying players in the proper payout times i.e. 2-3 day times. ...... "one thing I can assure you that one way or another I will get your funds paid as I always did with all of my clients and that is a guarante. That is what kept us always going nontheless the difficulties of recent gaming networks."
...
[08/05/2013 9:51:11 AM] Bjorn: yeah as you wish sean still skin hierarchy everybody knows how it works - however the idea is that you get your money - so if you want to get your money just stay shhh about 4donk let's just be practical
[08/05/2013 9:51:15 AM] Bjorn: however about pivgame
[08/05/2013 9:51:20 AM] Bjorn: please write whatever you like
At this point he presented me with their "solution" of moving the money to a new skin where I would have to rake 2x the amount before I can withdraw it. Ie. for my case, I would need to rake $102,400. Given my low volume and the lack of high stakes games on the network, this was clearly and absurd and unacceptable resolution for me.
Bjorn tells me that none of this is 4Donk's responsibility and that they are owed "10x" as much as me. He tells me that they didn't feel as though there was any risk dealing with PIV and that he always thought player accounts would be safe. It's at this point that I point out to him that his site is still taking deposits and how shady that is. He did quickly take that option off of the website once I told him about it.
[13/05/2013 3:51:29 PM] Sean Lefort: so when 4donk was functioning and taking deposits, you guys honestly believe there was 0% risk that any of these licensees wouldn't pay?
[13/05/2013 3:52:06 PM] Bjorn: finally these operators are controlled monthly by the licenced authority
[13/05/2013 3:52:13 PM] Bjorn: that should balance the funds every month
[13/05/2013 3:52:19 PM] Bjorn: so why sould anyone think differently
[13/05/2013 3:52:40 PM] Bjorn: some thoughts came but when we checked we always got the ok
[13/05/2013 3:52:43 PM] Bjorn: so we kept on going
...
[13/05/2013 3:58:46 PM] Bjorn: just leave 4donk
[13/05/2013 3:58:54 PM] Bjorn: you're in love with mentioning 4donk
[13/05/2013 3:58:57 PM] Bjorn: mention pokerxed
[13/05/2013 3:58:59 PM] Bjorn: they closed
[13/05/2013 3:59:02 PM] Bjorn: they dont give a heck
[13/05/2013 3:59:06 PM] Bjorn: and it's exact situation
[13/05/2013 3:59:10 PM] Bjorn: and say like i tell you
[13/05/2013 3:59:24 PM] Bjorn: write I was playing on a pivgame skin operated
[13/05/2013 3:59:35 PM] Bjorn: by Poker in Venice and administered by Mr. Cesare Florio
[13/05/2013 3:59:45 PM] Bjorn: who apparently is planning to run away
[13/05/2013 3:59:51 PM] Bjorn: with player funds
[13/05/2013 3:59:57 PM] Bjorn: He has not been paying for months
[13/05/2013 4:00:06 PM] Bjorn: and there is no answer back
[13/05/2013 4:00:10 PM] Sean Lefort: the situation is that i started playing on 4donk, made deposits, played.. and now i have $53,000 in my 4donk account that I'm being told I will never see
[13/05/2013 4:00:17 PM] Sean Lefort: that seems like information the poker community should know
[13/05/2013 4:00:27 PM] Bjorn: so im telling you the real things
[13/05/2013 4:00:30 PM] Bjorn: the poker community
[13/05/2013 4:00:36 PM] Bjorn: doesnt know a heck of what happens
[13/05/2013 4:00:40 PM] Bjorn: in the legislation here
[13/05/2013 4:00:46 PM] Bjorn: and more and more with lga in malta
[13/05/2013 4:00:51 PM] Bjorn: however write whatever you like
[13/05/2013 4:00:55 PM] Bjorn: yes that is 2+2
[13/05/2013 4:01:00 PM] Bjorn: everybody writing things
[13/05/2013 4:01:07 PM] Bjorn: whithout arriving 10% next to the real situation
[13/05/2013 4:01:15 PM] Bjorn: of course i can;t stop you from what you write
[13/05/2013 4:01:31 PM] Sean Lefort: okay thanks
[13/05/2013 4:02:14 PM] Bjorn: ]just do me a favour
[13/05/2013 4:02:17 PM] Bjorn: don paste my chats
[13/05/2013 4:02:22 PM] Bjorn: and dont put my name
[13/05/2013 4:02:32 PM] Sean Lefort: why? you didn't do anything wrong
[13/05/2013 4:02:44 PM] Bjorn: yes of course
[13/05/2013 4:02:52 PM] Bjorn: i'm telling you leave me out of the search engines
[13/05/2013 4:03:05 PM] Bjorn: i have reputable business here
[13/05/2013 4:03:17 PM] Bjorn: and dont want to get bad rep for something that i didnt do
[13/05/2013 4:03:28 PM] Sean Lefort: i'm not going to tell people that you did anything wrong
[13/05/2013 4:03:35 PM] Sean Lefort: i'm going to tell them what happened
[13/05/2013 4:03:43 PM] Sean Lefort: they're going to decide for themselves
...
[13/05/2013 4:26:40 PM] Bjorn: dont worry this thing happened
[13/05/2013 4:26:42 PM] Bjorn: 20 times
[13/05/2013 4:26:47 PM] Bjorn: in the last couple of years]
[13/05/2013 4:26:52 PM] Bjorn: unfortunately
[13/05/2013 4:26:58 PM] Bjorn: the authorities just close an eye
[13/05/2013 4:27:04 PM] Bjorn: and these things continue to happen
[13/05/2013 4:27:13 PM] Bjorn: everleaf has been bankrup for 3 years
[13/05/2013 4:27:18 PM] Bjorn: abnd it's still ive
[13/05/2013 4:27:22 PM] Bjorn: you can imagine the situation
[13/05/2013 4:27:56 PM] Sean Lefort: so if this has happened 20 times before.. why would 4donk take all these deposits from clients without warning them that there is some risk of this happening? that seems incredibly deceiptful..
[13/05/2013 4:28:04 PM] Bjorn: eh?
[13/05/2013 4:28:08 PM] Bjorn: but if i didnt take the money
[13/05/2013 4:28:14 PM] Bjorn: this guy at piv
It's at this point a few days ago that I'm told by Bjorn the final verdict is that PIV has come to an agreement with the LGA that they will move all funds to a skin where players will have to rake 2x the amount to get credit and receive withdrawals. There is no other alternative and thus for me, I won't be seeing my money.
[23/05/2013 4:47:14 PM] Sean Lefort: so are you going to move to something else like finance or a different business?
[23/05/2013 4:47:20 PM] Sean Lefort: or did you go to school for something
[23/05/2013 4:47:58 PM] Bjorn: eh hehe no for now not
[23/05/2013 4:48:04 PM] Bjorn: we have one of the major
[23/05/2013 4:48:10 PM] Bjorn: web and marketing companies
[23/05/2013 4:48:12 PM] Bjorn: on the island
[23/05/2013 4:48:26 PM] Bjorn: + we do consultation and company setups here in malta
[23/05/2013 4:48:33 PM] Bjorn: skinning is just one of our areas
[23/05/2013 4:48:46 PM] Bjorn: unfortunately its a sector where you depend
[23/05/2013 4:48:54 PM] Bjorn: from operators and there you dont have much control
[23/05/2013 4:48:59 PM] Bjorn: like it happened in this case
[23/05/2013 4:49:18 PM] Bjorn: when it is like that we can't perform our normal diligence as we are used to do it
[23/05/2013 4:49:23 PM] Bjorn: when we run our own things
[23/05/2013 4:50:12 PM] Bjorn: if we used to do only skins we would be out of business for ages cause margins are too low
[23/05/2013 4:50:19 PM] Bjorn: and risks have become very big
[23/05/2013 4:51:03 PM] Sean Lefort: yoogaming is going to get a terrible reputation for all this bjorn.. you can't just lose 52k of someone's money (regardless of who's fault it is) and have that person not care about telling the world about every detail.. its complete irresponsibility and everybody will soon know every single detail that has occured to me
[23/05/2013 4:51:17 PM] Sean Lefort: i dont want to hear any more excuses about how its' not your fault, im not getting my 52k, and people are going to hear why
[23/05/2013 4:51:20 PM] Sean Lefort: and who's involved
[23/05/2013 4:51:28 PM] Bjorn: ye you can lie as much as you like
[23/05/2013 4:51:33 PM] Bjorn: from my side i just know
[23/05/2013 4:51:40 PM] Bjorn: that i always assisted you
[23/05/2013 4:51:43 PM] Bjorn: and risked money
[23/05/2013 4:51:47 PM] Sean Lefort: i wont be lying at all, i'm going to put together every piece of information that i have
[23/05/2013 4:51:50 PM] Bjorn: to get you the most i could from piv
[23/05/2013 4:51:57 PM] Bjorn: you can say everything you like of course
[23/05/2013 4:52:04 PM] Bjorn: of course it wont be the truth
[23/05/2013 4:52:09 PM] Bjorn: but YES YOU CAN
[23/05/2013 4:52:19 PM] Bjorn: however i understand your feelings
[23/05/2013 4:52:23 PM] Bjorn: and cant blame you for that
Lastly, I have screenshots of confirmation that PIV is still taking deposits and ensuring that the money will always be safe, secure, and able to be withdrawn. I asked if I could deposit as much as $10k and they were very happy about accepting that deposit.
So it's quite clear the PIV is incredibly scummy and keeping any money with any company that's even dealing with them in any capacity is most likely a big mistake. What's not clear to me yet is the details of the relationships between PIV and 4Donk and YooGaming and who else is scummy and/or stealing people's money. Hopefully this thread helps formulate some conclusions on that end.
At the very least, I find it appauling that 4Donk feels zero moral responsibility for this money given that they knew PIV was a shady company to be dealing with and yet they still accepted deposits up until I told them they shouldn't be and how shady it looked. I'm not looking to point fingers at 4Donk/YooGaming for stealing money because obviously there's no proof of that. But there's certainly proof of them being irresponsible as company operators and it would be my strong suggestion to everyone to not trust them with your money in any shape or form, as you can see how that worked out for me.
There are various other people I know in similar situations as me that I've been in contact with throughout all of this and they'll likely join this thread and have things to add. Hopefully anyone else with money withheld by these companies will come out from the woodworks so we can work together towards formulating a plan to see some of our money back. I don't share much optimism with regards to seeing any of it back, but at least this thread should help in raising the community's awareness about these companies.
Love the name of the site wonder what network its on will read your long thread as looks intriguing. You didn't play much volume but made 30k in withdrawls? Did you win the 30k playing poker as not clear to me? This sounds like the whale that kept transferring between merge sites on pic club . Oh the lga is involved in this gl op. Can we get some cliffs I speed read and don't understand what is going on except op made withdrawls and moved funds around not really specifiying if he played poker . Anyway please provide cliffs as very confusing to me.
Seriously if everleaf is involved you only have yourself to blame op imo.
Seriously if everleaf is involved you only have yourself to blame op imo.
cliffs are that he kept $50k on a shady site and got stiffed. i'm stunned in shock and disbelief.
Sorry OP, gl
Cliffs:
-OP deposited on 4Donk Poker which is a way to utilize a central bankroll for use on several different poker networks
-At least one of the poker networks offered by 4Donk Poker stopped paying 4 Donk Poker and went under
-4Donk does not feel any responsibility to pay their players affected by this (these) networks going under and says the authorities do not care
-OP deposited on 4Donk Poker which is a way to utilize a central bankroll for use on several different poker networks
-At least one of the poker networks offered by 4Donk Poker stopped paying 4 Donk Poker and went under
-4Donk does not feel any responsibility to pay their players affected by this (these) networks going under and says the authorities do not care
would the network going under be everleaf? Gl op
Its called KARMA Sean. Expect a lot more of it in the future.
I mean, every semi-intelligent person would just read the name of the site and never even think of putting any money on. Well played sir.
Not hating on OP and hope he gets his money but it seems every day there is a new thread here with some site I have never heard of in the title with someone posting how they get rolled.
Stick to the main skins and sites etc....
I might do a lengthy writeup on all of this later titled "Internet Poker 101"
So just to clarify, they are willing to put the $51,200 on another site for you, and you'd have to rake 2x to be able to withdrawal it, right?
Just looked at the 4Donk site and it does look like Everleaf is one of the networks they use. That could very well be the root of the problem.
Just looked at the 4Donk site and it does look like Everleaf is one of the networks they use. That could very well be the root of the problem.
U making it sound like he did something wrong?
LGA is a joke of an operation and doesn't protect anyone.
insane how this much money is still kept on any site other than PS and FTP. Its not even on the level of you only have yourself to blame but everyone is laughing at you?
feel for ya still though. still an expensive lesson that should have never been learned.
feel for ya still though. still an expensive lesson that should have never been learned.
I don't get all the hate. OP is simply a PSA to not do business with 4Donk. They are obviously still willing to collect deposits and the OP is attempting to save someone from losing money. If one less person deposits I'd say this OP did its job.
He's bitter and clearly the vengeful type person after he was scammed by someone in the HSNL XFers thread that turned around and then lost the 5k to me at HUPLO over the course of 10-15 hands where we got it in as standard coinflips and I was lucky enough to win. I had no idea he was playing with scammed money but when nba_guru brought it to my attention I brought the issue to the attention of the entire HSNL community to find out what the morally correct thing to do was. I was told that I would be an absolute moron to do anything but keep the money given all of the circumstances. I'm sure you can still find the posts somewhere.. maybe back in January HSNL. Not looking to derail the thread.. but nba_guru showing his lack of class ITT.
Yeah I mean obviously it was money won.. its not like I went depositing large sums. I knew there was some risk involved, and lost out because of it. This thread serves as a notice of that risk to the rest of the community.
I'm one of the other players who has been talking with 4Donk for a number of months about getting my money out (~7k Euros). They have been giving me the lip service since March. Lots of dragging along and empty promises. Their plan has shifted from "you'll get paid" to "the sky is falling" within a matter of days. Now it involves playing for months to rake up to 2x our cashouts before we can withdraw, on a network with almost 0 volume.
Complaining to PokerInVenice (PIV) has yielded nothing but silence and false promises. They still tell players cashouts take "less than 10 days" if you want to deposit there. Poor business and ethical practices going on here.
Complaining to the LGA and its player manager Frances Blenheim hasn't amounted to much, so far. Repeated emails to them have been ignored as I have been trying to get a word out of them for the past 2 weeks.
I have chat logs with 4donk's owners that would make them look really bad but I don't think it will serve much in terms of getting our money back, at least yet.
So here we have 3 different parties dragging, lying and/or ignoring us. It's not hard to see what kind of web they're weaving but in the end we seriously question what these so call gaming regulatory bodies are there for if not to protect player funds? From our experience it seems like they are simply there to collect licensing fees.
Does the LGA have anything to say publicly about this fiasco?
Are they actively seeking a solution?
Why is their player manager Frances Blenheim ignoring pleas from the players she is suppose to be protecting?
Is PIV busto?
Why do they still accept deposits?
Where's our money?
I will make sure both of these entities receive a link to this thread to see what they have to say.
Complaining to PokerInVenice (PIV) has yielded nothing but silence and false promises. They still tell players cashouts take "less than 10 days" if you want to deposit there. Poor business and ethical practices going on here.
Complaining to the LGA and its player manager Frances Blenheim hasn't amounted to much, so far. Repeated emails to them have been ignored as I have been trying to get a word out of them for the past 2 weeks.
I have chat logs with 4donk's owners that would make them look really bad but I don't think it will serve much in terms of getting our money back, at least yet.
So here we have 3 different parties dragging, lying and/or ignoring us. It's not hard to see what kind of web they're weaving but in the end we seriously question what these so call gaming regulatory bodies are there for if not to protect player funds? From our experience it seems like they are simply there to collect licensing fees.
Does the LGA have anything to say publicly about this fiasco?
Are they actively seeking a solution?
Why is their player manager Frances Blenheim ignoring pleas from the players she is suppose to be protecting?
Is PIV busto?
Why do they still accept deposits?
Where's our money?
I will make sure both of these entities receive a link to this thread to see what they have to say.
Depositing even 50 cent on a site " 4Donk Poker" unfortunately is going to garner you little to absolutley no sympathy on this forum/thread.
He is clearly not looking for any sympathy, he is simply informing us that 4donk poker is not to be trusted
Seems pretty damn fishy that thy have the same 2x playthrough that the "new" minted poker has on accounts that were never paid by everleaf. They both were/are regulated by lga and looks like they are both deflecting blame and still trying to garner new deposits.
Hey guys,
So this is Bjorn - the guy Sean mentioned. I'm not much a fan of these forums cause the idea behind any problem is to be practical and try to arrive to a solution. Quoting half facts and putting blame without knowing the base behind the real problem is not the perfect way to solve things.
However I can say that I understand Sean's problem and that of many players' on the PIVGAME Network and the simplest thing in life is to blame the only person whom you were in contact with and that tried to help you! It's the world we're used to it and unlike other persons I'm not going to put half quotes taken from a contest and trying to put them in another to try to prove my point.
So let us start and tell you how this unfortunate situation developed. BTW I am/used to be an affiliate manager at 4donk just to clear Sean's statement about my presumed role at 4donk etc. So mainly 4donk, pokerxe, howdy poker and all white label skins operating under the licence of POKERINVENICE LIMITED registered in Malta started having delays in payouts in the last couple of months. Just for everybody to know the hierarchy and structure of a gaming operation a white label/skin is nothing less than a big affiliate deal. Skins pay normally a lump sum of money at the beginning of business to get a site(also called skin) and maybe get a 5% on top of a normal affiliate deal. A skin like 4donk, pokerxe, howdy etc has ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over PLAYER FUNDS and PLAYER MANAGEMENT. The only thing a skin does is refer players to the operator which in this case was POKERINVENICE LTD. ONLY AND ONLY the OPERATOR also called LICENCEE has control over player funds. So if the licencee/operator doesn't inform of nothing the skins under him of what is happening, the skin/whitelabel is just left there like an idiot to get the blame for everything that happens.
The question here is not to find whose blame is but if I find my name put around like that for just trying to help in every possible manner I think the minimum thing to do is just post a reply to clear my stand. As said before I understand completely every client's hardtime and finally if stressing out my name even unjustly to relieve the stress of the situation one can also use that!
The matter of the 2x rake etc was just an alternative that 4donk was trying to offer to players who played under the skin name just to try and offer something alternative for what the operator PIVGAME/POKERINVENICE LTD was not offering. Of course it is not absolutely no official legal way of closing the matter with player funds. PLAYER FUNDS ARE THE VERY FIRST OBBLIGATION OF EVERY LICENCEE/OPERATOR AND THEY MUST BE PAID BEFORE EVERY OTHER OBBLIGATION OF A GAMING COMPANY LICENCED AND REGISTERED UNDER THE LOTTERIES AND GAMING AUTHORITY IN MALTA. THE LICENCEE/OPERATOR (in this case POKERINVENICE) CAN NEVER OFFER A WAGERING RAKE LIMIT AS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK. RESPONSIBLE GAMING IS ONE OF THE MAIN CLAUSES OF THE LGA AND GAMBLING TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK CAN NEVER BE THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT AN ENTITY REGISTERED UNDER THE LGA AND MFSA CAN OFFER TO ITS CLIENTS. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL!!!!
So dear players, who you have funds under any POKERINVENICE LTD operation please send only emails to complaints@lga.org.mt stating how many funds you have got stuck on POKERINVENICE LTD and saying that you want your money back. If you don't want another purple lounge,everleaf and other ****ty operators situation this time stand up and just ask for your monies. Take action and don't let these situations happen again!!!
Just to stress it out if it was not enough before. Dear players whom you have funds on any POKERINVENICE skin or the same pokerinvenice.com, the ONLY WAY TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK is BY SENDING CONTINUOS EMAILS to:
COMPLAINTS@LGA.ORG.MT
Your deposits under MALTESE JURISDICTION (LGA) MUST BE GUARANTEED AT ALL TIMES NO MATTER WHAT SITUATION.
So this is Bjorn - the guy Sean mentioned. I'm not much a fan of these forums cause the idea behind any problem is to be practical and try to arrive to a solution. Quoting half facts and putting blame without knowing the base behind the real problem is not the perfect way to solve things.
However I can say that I understand Sean's problem and that of many players' on the PIVGAME Network and the simplest thing in life is to blame the only person whom you were in contact with and that tried to help you! It's the world we're used to it and unlike other persons I'm not going to put half quotes taken from a contest and trying to put them in another to try to prove my point.
So let us start and tell you how this unfortunate situation developed. BTW I am/used to be an affiliate manager at 4donk just to clear Sean's statement about my presumed role at 4donk etc. So mainly 4donk, pokerxe, howdy poker and all white label skins operating under the licence of POKERINVENICE LIMITED registered in Malta started having delays in payouts in the last couple of months. Just for everybody to know the hierarchy and structure of a gaming operation a white label/skin is nothing less than a big affiliate deal. Skins pay normally a lump sum of money at the beginning of business to get a site(also called skin) and maybe get a 5% on top of a normal affiliate deal. A skin like 4donk, pokerxe, howdy etc has ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over PLAYER FUNDS and PLAYER MANAGEMENT. The only thing a skin does is refer players to the operator which in this case was POKERINVENICE LTD. ONLY AND ONLY the OPERATOR also called LICENCEE has control over player funds. So if the licencee/operator doesn't inform of nothing the skins under him of what is happening, the skin/whitelabel is just left there like an idiot to get the blame for everything that happens.
The question here is not to find whose blame is but if I find my name put around like that for just trying to help in every possible manner I think the minimum thing to do is just post a reply to clear my stand. As said before I understand completely every client's hardtime and finally if stressing out my name even unjustly to relieve the stress of the situation one can also use that!
The matter of the 2x rake etc was just an alternative that 4donk was trying to offer to players who played under the skin name just to try and offer something alternative for what the operator PIVGAME/POKERINVENICE LTD was not offering. Of course it is not absolutely no official legal way of closing the matter with player funds. PLAYER FUNDS ARE THE VERY FIRST OBBLIGATION OF EVERY LICENCEE/OPERATOR AND THEY MUST BE PAID BEFORE EVERY OTHER OBBLIGATION OF A GAMING COMPANY LICENCED AND REGISTERED UNDER THE LOTTERIES AND GAMING AUTHORITY IN MALTA. THE LICENCEE/OPERATOR (in this case POKERINVENICE) CAN NEVER OFFER A WAGERING RAKE LIMIT AS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK. RESPONSIBLE GAMING IS ONE OF THE MAIN CLAUSES OF THE LGA AND GAMBLING TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK CAN NEVER BE THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT AN ENTITY REGISTERED UNDER THE LGA AND MFSA CAN OFFER TO ITS CLIENTS. IT IS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL!!!!
So dear players, who you have funds under any POKERINVENICE LTD operation please send only emails to complaints@lga.org.mt stating how many funds you have got stuck on POKERINVENICE LTD and saying that you want your money back. If you don't want another purple lounge,everleaf and other ****ty operators situation this time stand up and just ask for your monies. Take action and don't let these situations happen again!!!
Just to stress it out if it was not enough before. Dear players whom you have funds on any POKERINVENICE skin or the same pokerinvenice.com, the ONLY WAY TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK is BY SENDING CONTINUOS EMAILS to:
COMPLAINTS@LGA.ORG.MT
Your deposits under MALTESE JURISDICTION (LGA) MUST BE GUARANTEED AT ALL TIMES NO MATTER WHAT SITUATION.
So dear players, who you have funds under any POKERINVENICE LTD operation please send only emails to complaints@lga.org.mt stating how many funds you have got stuck on POKERINVENICE LTD and saying that you want your money back. If you don't want another purple lounge,everleaf and other ****ty operators situation this time stand up and just ask for your monies. Take action and don't let these situations happen again!!!
You really think no one asked for their money?
You really are going to come here to a players forum and imply the players let this happen?
We needed you to instruct us to stop being victims and email LGA?
You are a funny guy.
Let me let you in on a secret. LGA is ****ing useless. You might as well email Jesus and Santa Claus while you are at it.
Just to stress it out if it was not enough before. Dear players whom you have funds on any POKERINVENICE skin or the same pokerinvenice.com, the ONLY WAY TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK is BY SENDING CONTINUOS EMAILS to:
COMPLAINTS@LGA.ORG.MT
Your deposits under MALTESE JURISDICTION (LGA) MUST BE GUARANTEED AT ALL TIMES NO MATTER WHAT SITUATION.
COMPLAINTS@LGA.ORG.MT
Your deposits under MALTESE JURISDICTION (LGA) MUST BE GUARANTEED AT ALL TIMES NO MATTER WHAT SITUATION.
The paragraph is insulting to me personally as someone who had their bankroll stolen by Everleaf.
You really think no one asked for their money?
You really are going to come here to a players forum and imply the players let this happen?
We needed you to instruct us to stop being victims and email LGA?
You are a funny guy.
Let me let you in on a secret. LGA is ****ing useless. You might as well email Jesus and Santa Claus while you are at it.
You really think no one asked for their money?
You really are going to come here to a players forum and imply the players let this happen?
We needed you to instruct us to stop being victims and email LGA?
You are a funny guy.
Let me let you in on a secret. LGA is ****ing useless. You might as well email Jesus and Santa Claus while you are at it.
However coming back to practical solutions. In the last years LGA has proved itself as a lifeguard for fraudulent operators who went into gaming business and mismanaged player funds. This can now change. Now there is a new management at LGA and pressure must be done at all times on this institution even if it lacked seriously in past. Finally LGA is a local government institution and the government finally has to prove its solidity and can't let illegal things happen under its own eyes. So sending emails is the first thing to put political pressure on this authority that has been leaking water from every part.
So what I'm telling you is this. The procedure to handle these matters is this, first pressure towards LGA, if no reasonable solution is founds, next step is to go to the Ministry responsible for the matter and take legal action there. Malta is filled up with law and consultancy firms so arriving to the direct interested will be the least of the problems! It is a 100% win case scenario if a similar case is taken legally. The case of Everleaf was different and LGA could take it easier because there were many US players on board so it took it lightly on most of the player funds involved. Of course there were many other funds that were not US.
So situation is this, if you really want to get your money, YOU CAN. I understand putting awareness on these forums but if you really want your money, take a break from posting here and JUST TAKING LEGAL ACTION. ALL CASES ARE 100% WIN SCENARIOS and relative legal costs will be covered by the eventual positive sentence.
Btw guys, finally I wouldn't even need to bother to post things here cause from the experience I had, more I tried to help people out, more people tried to put the blame on me heh
However I'm not that type of person and finally giving a couple of tips to help the situation is the least one can do.
Bobo Fett - I agree with you regarding the matter that LGA didn't bother with Everleaf. However if these situations continue happening is also because players have taken few or 0 action against these individuals/authorities. If I have 50k stuck on account, the first thing I do is invest 2k and open a case against 1. THE LICENCEE and if I do not get any results I go after 2. THE LGA. If you all had funds and didn't do these steps then you also have to blame a bit yourself. If nobody takes any legal action, you're indirectly giving your consent for these things to continue happening.
Of course things should be always done in the proper manner but this is the world and things happen in the opposite way all the time but that's why then there are courts to prove your cases and get what is yours. Surely if only 1 person opened a case against any of the operators or authority situation would have been much different today!
Guys remember also 1 thing which is fundamental! Malta is not Curacao. Malta is part of the European Union so legally you could always arrive even if you finish up taking your case to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. I know it's a lengthy process but to get my money back I would prefer always following that track!
It would take a whole helluva lot more than 2k to grease the wheels in Malta.
Bjorne how much have you made off 4donk? Are you still accepting deposits?
Bjorne how much have you made off 4donk? Are you still accepting deposits?
Dear StreetHoh, I imagine that you got your almost 6000 posts by writing posts like these that of course don't produce nothing and maybe help you fill your time between different episodeds of games of thrones.
However coming back to practical solutions. In the last years LGA has proved itself as a lifeguard for fraudulent operators who went into gaming business and mismanaged player funds. This can now change. Now there is a new management at LGA and pressure must be done at all times on this institution even if it lacked seriously in past. Finally LGA is a local government institution and the government finally has to prove its solidity and can't let illegal things happen under its own eyes. So sending emails is the first thing to put political pressure on this authority that has been leaking water from every part.
So what I'm telling you is this. The procedure to handle these matters is this, first pressure towards LGA, if no reasonable solution is founds, next step is to go to the Ministry responsible for the matter and take legal action there. Malta is filled up with law and consultancy firms so arriving to the direct interested will be the least of the problems! It is a 100% win case scenario if a similar case is taken legally. The case of Everleaf was different and LGA could take it easier because there were many US players on board so it took it lightly on most of the player funds involved. Of course there were many other funds that were not US.
So situation is this, if you really want to get your money, YOU CAN. I understand putting awareness on these forums but if you really want your money, take a break from posting here and JUST TAKING LEGAL ACTION. ALL CASES ARE 100% WIN SCENARIOS and relative legal costs will be covered by the eventual positive sentence.
However coming back to practical solutions. In the last years LGA has proved itself as a lifeguard for fraudulent operators who went into gaming business and mismanaged player funds. This can now change. Now there is a new management at LGA and pressure must be done at all times on this institution even if it lacked seriously in past. Finally LGA is a local government institution and the government finally has to prove its solidity and can't let illegal things happen under its own eyes. So sending emails is the first thing to put political pressure on this authority that has been leaking water from every part.
So what I'm telling you is this. The procedure to handle these matters is this, first pressure towards LGA, if no reasonable solution is founds, next step is to go to the Ministry responsible for the matter and take legal action there. Malta is filled up with law and consultancy firms so arriving to the direct interested will be the least of the problems! It is a 100% win case scenario if a similar case is taken legally. The case of Everleaf was different and LGA could take it easier because there were many US players on board so it took it lightly on most of the player funds involved. Of course there were many other funds that were not US.
So situation is this, if you really want to get your money, YOU CAN. I understand putting awareness on these forums but if you really want your money, take a break from posting here and JUST TAKING LEGAL ACTION. ALL CASES ARE 100% WIN SCENARIOS and relative legal costs will be covered by the eventual positive sentence.
I dont understand why Players need to do your Job Bjorn ? are you not living in Malta and even are Maltese ? isnt it easier for you to start a legal claim against PIV as someone who dont live there ?
to the players: i would send the email to LGA, threaten them with also informing the ECJ ( european court of justice) about this case
also send letters to Time of Malta and inform them about all stories, they might write about it
As EU citizen you need to be aware you have rights and 52k is a great amount to say to the lawyer, he gets 20% - 30% of the recovered money
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