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Old 03-12-2017, 11:03 PM   #26
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
You think playing against a table full of super-nits at 1/2 NL makes for a good game? To be fair, you do end up winning $2 a lot.

And I would -love- to play against the same opponents in the 20/40 LHE game.
Maybe I have missed something in one of your earlier posts. Why are you playing in this kind of game with these folks anyway? Is this all that is available? Your comments remind me of the old joke. Patient " Doc , it hurts when I do that!" Doctor " Don't do that!"
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:26 PM   #27
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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just go play at borgata.
I was going to bring that up.

On a weekend Harrah's may have three to five Super 1/2 tables going (the super meaning the max buyin is $500). Borgata will have fifteen 1/2 tables, eight or nine 2/5 tables and two - four 5/10 tables. Or something like that.

The last 4 or 5 months I've been trying to drive down to Borgata to play 5/10 once or twice a month. Largely due to playing online at WSOP I made diamond Aspirations Level I at total rewards last year. This earned me a free 4 night stay with $100 room folio credit. I used this last month and went to Harrah's for an extended weekend with my wife and a couple we are friends with. The other couple only stayed one night and on the Sunday my wife was watching the Oscars. I didn't feel like going over to Borgata so I just went downstairs hoping to get a 2/5 game. There were like 7 or 8 people on the 2/5 list and I got the guy to call it, but I was the only one to show up to the table. Floor guy told me it was tough for them to get the 2/5 game going since their Super 1/2 game had the same buy-in as Borgata's 2/5 (yes, Borgata's 2/5 is only a max $500 buy-in, although I don't think the floorman's reasoning there is sound [Borgata's 5/10 is max $2,000 buyin]). So I went to play the Super 1/2. I'd played this Super 1/2 game one night like a year earlier when I went to Harrah's with a friend for a weekend and one night he felt like playing poker. It wasn't bad that night; people had stacks of chips and were talking and there was some action. But this night I walked over to the table with my $500. Sat down. Looked around. Just about everyone had like 70 or 80 bucks. The seat to my right when I sat down was empty. After a while a guy came and sat there. After a couple minutes he looked at my stack (at this point slightly less than the max buy-in of $500) and asked me if I won a high hand. And, god, the players at the 1/2 there would get so pissy over losing $80 to $100 in a hand whereas players at Borgata 5/10 losing $1,000 or whatever wouldn't have such an outward negative reaction.

I guess, basically, play at Borgata.

Last edited by Lego05; 03-12-2017 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:32 PM   #28
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
Maybe I have missed something in one of your earlier posts. Why are you playing in this kind of game with these folks anyway? Is this all that is available? Your comments remind me of the old joke. Patient " Doc , it hurts when I do that!" Doctor " Don't do that!"
His OP's not about the game being bad it is about WHY the game is bad: Nitty OMC's sitting there folding 95% and he's trying to deconstruct the reasons and have a discussion about it.

I'll say it again: Day game, pass the time, low cost, lowest risk possible.
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Old 03-12-2017, 11:54 PM   #29
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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I was going to bring that up.

On a weekend Harrah's may have three to five Super 1/2 tables going (the super meaning the max buyin is $500). Borgata will have fifteen 1/2 tables, eight or nine 2/5 tables and two - four 5/10 tables. Or something like that.

The last 4 or 5 months I've been trying to drive down to Borgata to play 5/10 once or twice a month. Largely due to playing online at WSOP I made diamond Aspirations Level I at total rewards last year. This earned me a free 4 night stay with $100 room folio credit. I used this last month and went to Harrah's for an extended weekend with my wife and a couple we are friends with. The other couple only stayed one night and on the Sunday my wife was watching the Oscars. I didn't feel like going over to Borgata so I just went downstairs hoping to get a 2/5 game. There were like 7 or 8 people on the 2/5 list and I got the guy to call it, but I was the only one to show up to the table. Floor guy told me it was tough for them to get the 2/5 game going since their Super 1/2 game had the same buy-in as Borgata's 2/5 (yes, Borgata's 2/5 is only a max $500 buy-in, although I don't think the floorman's reasoning there is sound [Borgata's 5/10 is max $2,000 buyin]). So I went to play the Super 1/2. I'd played this Super 1/2 game one night like a year earlier when I went to Harrah's with a friend for a weekend and one night he felt like playing poker. It wasn't bad that night; people had stacks of chips and were talking and there was some action. But this night I walked over to the table with my $500. Sat down. Looked around. Just about everyone had like 70 or 80 bucks. The seat to my right when I sat down was empty. After a while a guy came and sat there. After a couple minutes he looked at my stack (at this point slightly less than the max buy-in of $500) and asked me if I won a high hand. And, god, the players at the 1/2 there would get so pissy over losing $80 to $100 in a hand whereas players at Borgata 5/10 losing $1,000 or whatever wouldn't have such an outward negative reaction.

I guess, basically, play at Borgata.
I did head to Borgata one of the days. I was hoping to play 20/40 or even 10/20 LHE most of the time, but none of them were running. They only had one 2/5 game running, but I after a little while they opened a 2nd game and I joined it. The game wasn't great (though for different reasons than the Harrah's games) so I only played a few hours. That same afternoon, I located the 10/20 OE game at Ballys, which was fun, but broke pretty early. At that point I figured if I was just going to play 1/2 I might as well play where I was staying. And as I said above, the games were much better at night.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:33 AM   #30
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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I did head to Borgata one of the days. I was hoping to play 20/40 or even 10/20 LHE most of the time, but none of them were running. They only had one 2/5 game running, but I after a little while they opened a 2nd game and I joined it. The game wasn't great (though for different reasons than the Harrah's games) so I only played a few hours. That same afternoon, I located the 10/20 OE game at Ballys, which was fun, but broke pretty early. At that point I figured if I was just going to play 1/2 I might as well play where I was staying. And as I said above, the games were much better at night.

What day of the week and what time was this? Pretty sure Borgata gets bigger limit games than that regularly, at least on the weekends. And only one 2/5 game seems unusual. I didn't know Bally's ever got a 10/20 anything game going.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:54 AM   #31
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

OP, I recommend The Psychology of Poker, by Alan Schoonmaker, PhD (a Two Plus Two publication). He discusses the different and often mixed motives that people have for playing poker. Most poker strategy books start with the premise that the reason we play poker is to make money—but this isn't exactly true, or it's not the whole truth for most players.

Because of the rake and the expectation that winners will tip dealers and other card room personnel, poker is not a zero-sum game. There are far more losers than winners. In fact, at the lowest stakes, the rake may be so large in relation to the average pot size that almost no one is winning in the long run. So if everyone's reason for playing is to make money, almost everyone is failing—why do they keep doing it?

For the same reasons that people keep playing the slots. It gets them out of the house, it passes the time, it's a social activity (even if you're hardly talking to anyone, you're around other people all day long), it's exciting to gamble, it's fun to fantasize about hitting the jackpot, etc., etc.

The stereotypical OMC likes to keep his losses to a minimum. That's why he's adopted such a cautious, timid playing style. He might not win much—or anything—but he's not losing much either. (And he may not keep careful track of how much he's losing anyway.) From the OMC's perspective, he's getting a lot of entertainment for a few bucks an hour.

Why didn't the OWC who made quad 8's raise when you bluffed into her? I can think of a few reasons. She didn't want to hurt you (not everyone has the killer instinct; even those who do may not employ it all the time). She figured you wouldn't call a raise anyway. And she thought the high-hand payout was sufficient reward for her hand.

I think the more important question to ask is why do you play poker—and then select a game that best meets your needs. Especially if you have a choice of casinos and games, "I might as well play where I'm staying" may not be the best criterion for game selection—unless, of course, convenience trumps all other considerations.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:37 AM   #32
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

Living in Florida I have gotten the usually unfortunate opportunity to play against hundreds of OMCs. If you think 1/2NL is bad, play 3/6 limit O8 10 handed at SHR Tampa while waiting for a seat elsewhere. From my experience, they do think they are better than they really are, and they are passive-aggressive egotistical. Never underestimate OMCs inner ego.

Many of these players are retired from a job they hated for decades and want to just get out of the house, away from the wife, and feel like they are living on the wild side.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:57 AM   #33
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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His OP's not about the game being bad it is about WHY the game is bad: Nitty OMC's sitting there folding 95% and he's trying to deconstruct the reasons and have a discussion about it.

I'll say it again: Day game, pass the time, low cost, lowest risk possible.
I think that covers it pretty well and are the fairly obvious motivations for a table of OMCs. I just did not understand why a more serious player like the OP would bother to sit at a table like that for long, UNLESS it was all there was available at the times he could play.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:12 AM   #34
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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What day of the week and what time was this? Pretty sure Borgata gets bigger limit games than that regularly, at least on the weekends. And only one 2/5 game seems unusual. I didn't know Bally's ever got a 10/20 anything game going.
It was about noon on a Tuesday. I was there Mon-Wed and they never spread a single mid-limit game. I played these games around the clock when I went to AC more frequently around 2009-2012, so I was pretty disheartened.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #35
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

Mid-limit games are now all at Parx during the early part of the week, especially on Tues. They are mostly at Borgata on weekends and holidays. During the summer they may also develop more mid-week games, but the Parx games have been stronger still.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:07 PM   #36
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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Day game, pass the time, low cost, lowest risk possible.
Not sure why this wasn't obvious.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #37
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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If you think 1/2NL is bad, play 3/6 limit O8 10 handed at SHR Tampa while waiting for a seat elsewhere. From my experience, they do think they are better than they really are, and they are passive-aggressive egotistical. Never underestimate OMCs inner ego.
But the play at the low-limit LHE games seems totally different from this to me. At 3/6 LHE, people play in a way that really does provide cheap entertainment. They play very loose, seeing most flops and tons of showdowns, and also playing in a way that allows their opponents to do the same; these games give them the opportunity to see how lots of hands play out with risking any really money.

I'm talking about the players that sit at the table all day every day, rarely speak, and never play a hand.

As an analogy, I don't really find slot machines entertaining, but I can understand why other people do. But to me this is the difference between coming to the casino everyday to play a slot machine and coming to the casino everyday to stare at the demo screen on a slot machine without every putting any money it.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:32 PM   #38
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

My local small town room is full of OMC's who honestly, are just there to pass the time. Sure, they have money and occasionally gambooool it up, but for the most part, they are there to pass the time because their wives tell them to get out of the house and not come back till 5. So what else are they gonna do??
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:40 PM   #39
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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But in the case of these OMCs, I would love to be able to goad them to play back at me, or even better, leave the game entirely. Is there anything else that can be done to improve these games?
If you want to goad them into playing back at you, figure out their political leanings then loudly take the opposite position and dare them to disagree.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:06 PM   #40
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

Casinos are filled w people shredding money in the pit day after day in games they have no shot at beating.

I'm not sure why old people playing super tight break even to slightly losing poker while they socialize surprises you.theyre doing a lot better than almost everyone else in the casino.it is also a style that until a few years ago could still win money.keep in mind as you age unfortunately you often can't do a lot of the things you enjoyed when you were younger.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:06 PM   #41
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

It's easier to say that you think Social Security should be taxed at a much higher rate.
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:42 PM   #42
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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But the play at the low-limit LHE games seems totally different from this to me. At 3/6 LHE, people play in a way that really does provide cheap entertainment. They play very loose, seeing most flops and tons of showdowns, and also playing in a way that allows their opponents to do the same; these games give them the opportunity to see how lots of hands play out with risking any really money.

I'm talking about the players that sit at the table all day every day, rarely speak, and never play a hand.

As an analogy, I don't really find slot machines entertaining, but I can understand why other people do. But to me this is the difference between coming to the casino everyday to play a slot machine and coming to the casino everyday to stare at the demo screen on a slot machine without every putting any money it.
In the limit games there is a lot of checking after the flop. They also don't have to worry about going all-in. If you win an occasional pot you can sit there for a while before your chips disappear. You won't lose your stack on one hand.

I don't agree with the analogy of staring at the demo screen. They are getting dealt hands hoping for something really good. At any time they could get dealt pocket aces or something that could win a promotion or win a stack. They do get to check the bb and see a flop once in a while.

And some do think they make money from nitty play (and maybe they do or maybe they are running well and delusional). Some might even think they are good because they've been playing poker since the time our parents were born.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:50 PM   #43
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

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F I can then bluff to my heart's content (especially when a flush card hits the river) with no repercussions whatsoever because most of you idiots think that anyone over the age of 50 only plays the nuts or bets when he has the goods.
ez game.
+1. This is why *I* play poker! Stacking arrogant young-uns with misplaced perceptions is one my true pleasures in life.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:31 PM   #44
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

Nitty 1-2 NL is also cheaper than a lot of other hobbies people have. And it also looks better if the OMC brings the wife along and she loses at the slot machines.

Plus you get comps and free coffee.
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:48 AM   #45
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

My grandpa could maybe qualify as a OMC. I think youre possibly underestimating these guys. My grandpa is im his late 70s, retired and makes 3000 a month on top of what he made when he was playong 30/60 when he was younger and also from his business. He has friends all over vegas, plays every day at 1- 2 and makes a steady income. Has comps to everything and enjoys the nice weather. Hes been a winning player and pro since the 60s.

That old nit at your table may have been a very good player back in the day. Never know who youre up against.

A lot of those guys go home with a profit every day and enjoy stacking the hometown heroes who mock them for being tight
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:00 PM   #46
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

They can't watch Price is Right and eat Salisbury Steak TV dinners all day. They have to have some sort of masochistic excitement between catnaps.
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A lot of those guys go home with a profit every day and enjoy stacking the hometown heroes who mock them for being tight
... No...
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:26 PM   #47
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

I must not have ever encountered your grandpa at a $1/2 game in Vegas, at least on one of his good days. One thing OMCs like to do is embellish
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:06 PM   #48
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

It's a social hobby that for some people costs less than most other hobbies.

Heck some of them even make money. Impatience is a pretty big leak in live poker and it's one OMCs don't have.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:57 AM   #49
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

If you're having a hard time understanding the attraction for an an OMC, it just points to the lack of empathy within the serious poker community.

Think about it from their perspective. As a 70+ year old man, you get to sit at a table with other guys, talk if you want to, watch TV, have a much younger and more attractive (from your perspective) woman come around to cater to your needs every 20 minutes or so with small talk and free beverages, complain about anything you want with no repercussions, leave the seat up in the bathroom, occasionally see a fight or other drama, get paid in comps to be there and thanked for your business, and every once in a blue moon win a pile of money.

As someone who is essentially invisible out in the world, with little respect, accommodation, or excitement, what's not to like?


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Old 04-17-2017, 11:33 AM   #50
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Re: Why do OMCs play poker?

^this. Although some posters may be misunderstanding what op means by OMC it certainly won't apply to anyone who can beat 30/60 for a living lol
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