So I just returned from a couple days of playing in the most nittish 1/2 NL game I have ever seen at Harrah’s AC. During the day, at least 80% of my opponents could be charitably referred to OMCs. I have never managed to more often win $2 by raising to $8 preflop, or seen people fold their SB for $1 more in a limped pot so frequently. I actually ran reasonably well against the few other people at the table who were actually playing poker, so this is not a bad beat story. But the game was very little fun, and several times I just wanted to yell out to the table “Why are you even here?!?”

As I see it, there are four main sources of pleasure in playing poker:
1.) Socializing
2.) Learning and exploring the strategy of a game
3.) Making money
4.) Gambooool!!

But I can’t see how most of the players in this game derive any of these. They don’t really socialize much, beyond banal comments mostly related to room’s promotions, so #1 is out. They play a boring and uncreative strategy, so #2 is out. They play too tight, in a game that is too low stakes with too high of a rake to make any real money, so #3 is out. And they certainly aren’t seeking action, constantly avoiding getting into real gambling spots, so #4 is out. So I guess my question is: What exactly is the motivation that drives these players to come to the poker room everyday, play the lowest stakes game, and quietly fold for hours on end?

And on a somewhat related question, is it acceptable to call out or ridicule excessively nittish play? Obviously, you don’t want to mock or berate fun recreational players for bad plays. But in the case of these OMCs, I would love to be able to goad them to play back at me, or even better, leave the game entirely. Is there anything else that can be done to improve these games?

It's #1. "Socializing" is different for everyone.

It is not appropriate to call out nitty play unless the nit is complaining about someone else being nitty. In that case, it's fair game.

But save yourself the hassle and get a table change.

5) Kill time while waiting to die
6) Anything to get out of the house and away from the wife

But really it is a different form of socializing. Even though they may not say much they're among their "friends" and no one (wife/boss) is bugging them to do something they don't want to do.

Some will get fed up and go after the "maniac" if you raise to $8 every other hand. Some will only do so the one time they happen to look down at AA. Some of them will raise both AA and KK and then stack off on any board texture because they haven't played a hand in 3 hours - these are fun.

You can table change sometimes and get a better draw but often it's the room itself that's promoting this behavior with some freeroll or hours promo that they're running. If you're in AC or Vegas it's easy enough to room change at that point. Areas where there's no other nearby room you either live with it or avoid the place when the OMCs are in full bloom.

Table change!

It also helps if you play at night. Most OMCs have a strict bedtime of 8:00 pm.

It's number 1 for sure. They've literally got nothing else to do, so why not get out of the house and interact with other humans while not blowing the entire social security check in one day. On some level, I can't wait to be the future version of OMC.

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Look again at the O and the M of OMC.

They are old men.

This is what happens. This is who they are. This is why OMC was 'created'.
Learn to live with it because it's not going to change and you will be there one day.

ok, so i've played at harrahs AC so I know exactly what you're talking about. That game is beyond bad. I've seen a person fold Jacks pre flop when I BTN raised to $8.

It's pretty good late at night, but from about 8am - 5pm just go play at borgata.

Your best strategy in beating it is to open good hands from late position and bet boards that shouldn't connect with their range since they play too tight pre flop. They only call with strong holdings, and pocket pairs. If they play back at you or call you should proceed with caution. I would probably just table change because you aren't going to make much.

A table change really wouldn't help in that room. Every table is pretty much the same. Though the games do get much better at night, after the daytime crowd has put in the 5 hours to claim their food comp.

Not sure I agree with this. Just because they play a boring and uncreative strategy, that doesn't mean they think they aren't learning. Even if they sit there and daydream all the time they might think their "experience" counts for something.



I disagree with this. They often are hoping to hit the BBJ or some other type of promotion (or cash in a freeroll), and they care about their comps. And they get to chase those promotions in cheap games that won't cost them much. Why play 5/10 NL to chase the BBJ when you can play 2/4 limit and do the exact same thing?

Also, many people don't keep records, will think they are much better than they are, and make excuses for losing sessions like blaming bad beats or dealers.


When you're an OMC, trying not to get your aces, kings and sets cracked is more than enough gambooool. The same is true with playing pocket jacks.

Also tight is right and you want to chase those promotions as cheaply as possible so no need to do any silly, costly gambling.


All the things you listed. They just see those things in a different way than we do. I didn't respond to #1 because others mentioned it already, but they also are there to socialize.


Kind of wish I could say yes but it really does look bad to actually do that. Another thing you could do however that is acceptable is raise a lot PF and that will drive them nuts. I don't mean play recklessly; I just mean if you're an aggressive player in general then just play your game and they tend to hate that. Like I said, not getting those aces, kings and sets cracked is more than stressful enough for them so an aggressive player making the game even more gambly will often really get to them. You can also raise more often PF if you get them on your left.

Well, for one, you can stay out of them and quit ruining their enjoyment. Would you play 2/4 Limit with these same types of players? Of course not. Then why are you playing 1/2NL with them? Actually, I have a related question for you, and I'll use your own words to ask it.

Given your opinion of 1/2NL:

Then...

Bec for an entire, 'scary', $3/orbit they can sit for hours getting free coffee and w/e comps they earn on their cards. It's better than the senior center for many.

lol. normally i would think this was a joke but then i see who its coming from. why should OP care about whether old men nits like yourself are entertained?

Because when they were 28 years old they didn't have the benefit of 2+2 to ask the question "should I leave my good paying job to play poker". They thought their 17bb per hour win rate in the 5 card draw game was going to last forever. They eventually adapted and survived playing stud. Then the Moneymaker craze hit and they found playing super tight could win them a couple of stacks per session. Now players have gotten better, but they have lost interest in adapting yet again. So they socislize, get free drinks, search for the best comps, and occasionally get to tell some punk with a hoodie and headphones how bad they played when it was obvious they had AA. They would love to be in Florida with their friends playing golf, but they never saved in a 401k, don't have a pension, and get paid crap from social security because they never paid into the system. 2+2 could have saved them.

You kids get off my lawn!

I'm playing there while I'm on vacation because that's where I'm staying (with a comped room, so I don't want to completely no play them). I used to love that room, playing a few hundred hours a year at their 2/5 game 7-8 years ago, and the room was nothing like it is now. I also checked each day for the 20/40 LHE game at Borgata, but it was never running. The games across the city were really disappointing.

To clarify, I don't think it's impossible to make some money at 1/2. I just don't see how you can make any real money playing the style that they play. I do believe some of them are +EV given all the rake back/high hand/food comp promotions, but only for a few dollar an hour. And they certainly can't all be winning since they make up the huge majority of the room.

What makes you think that they are there to 'make any real money?' They obv aren't since they don't play a winning style, according to you, so it must be something else and one of those things is simply getting from day to day w/ something to do that doesn't cost too much.

If it's true that poker starts w/ a fight over the blinds/antes then you shouldn't expect much of a fight over $3 minus a drop pre if there is one from players who are there for different reasons than you are.

I don't think they are there to make "real money". I said that in my OP. Very few people who play poker are doing it for money. It's only a small reason why I play. Lots of people play home games or play money games where winning or losing meaningful amounts is impossible. But most of these players don't just sit at the table and quietly fold 95% of hands all day every day.

Well, if you want to get rid of them, lobby management to make 2-5 the lowest limit. That'll run them off.

First of all, I don't play 1/2 unless I'm simply killing time waiting for a seat in a 2/5 or higher game. Secondly, I'm about as far from a nit as you can get, but what's really funny, is that I make the most money from young headphone and sunglass-wearing regs by pretending to be an OMC. The very first thing I do, regardless of time of day or night, is order a coffee or two. I can then bluff to my heart's content (especially when a flush card hits the river) with no repercussions whatsoever because most of you idiots think that anyone over the age of 50 only plays the nuts or bets when he has the goods.

ez game.

Example of a hand from this game: 4-way limped pot, board runs out 88xx8 with no action. I bluff $6 on the river, and an old women calls (!) with 78s and sheepishly explains that she "usually never plays those type of hands". She wins $200 for the high hand, though if I hadn't bluffed the river, she wouldn't have even been eligible without $20 in the pot.

Who knows why but to be fair I don't think there is a whole lot your body allows you to do at that age that is enjoyable, then it comes down to playing the local bingo or 1/2 no limit foldem.

Lots of players don't play a winning style and are there to make real money. The reason they don't make real money is they just suck and don't realize how bad they are.

And to an OMC, a few dollars an hour might sound really good for playing 1-2 NL and might be "real money" to them. Plus you add in comps and chances to hit promotions, socialize, get away from the wife, the excitement, etc. and it sounds like a great deal to them.

Is NickMPA really complaining about people playing bad?

Confirmed.

Worst.Game.Ever.

You think playing against a table full of super-nits at 1/2 NL makes for a good game? To be fair, you do end up winning $2 a lot.

And I would -love- to play against the same opponents in the 20/40 LHE game.