Is this actually allowed? It's something I have done at various home games. However, players at my local casino were pretty annoyed with me and stated that that's 'not allowed around here'!

I don't see what the problem is, the only decision left is mine, what does it matter if anyone knows my cards?

Thanks

Why should you get an advantage in being able to show your hand to get a possible reaction when no other player in the hand had such an opportunity at any other point?

Cheers for the reply.

If by advantage you mean 'Live tell' I see your point. Other than that, what advantage does it give me?

It's something i will avoid doing in the future as it seems to be a no-no!

I was actually behind, holding JJ on TQ5r flop. If anything, it gave my opponent (Holding AQ) an advantage to talk me into a call

As if "live tell" is not enough? It gives one player an advantage over everyone else that started the hand. The real question is, if there is no inherent advantage, why do it to begin with? Because every time I have ever seen someone turn over their hand while keeping it live, it just causes a hand to take longer as the player keeps rambling on and on about their hand in hopes their opponent will give away a tell. And if that player has a friendly observer nearby, it allows a much easier and more open path to collusion during a major decision in a hand.

Poker is an arbitrary game. There are no "common" rules that everyone follows. Nor is there are "common sense" appeal against the rules. While it might be common sense that KKQQQ is a great hand to you, it can be ruled the worst hand possible. Therefore, your understanding of the rule is not important to the acceptance of the rule.

However there are good reasons for this rule. Let's say your best friend is at the table and acting behind you. You're on the river and a third player goes all in. You call and show your cards. Your best friend now knows the minimum hand he needs to beat to win the pot. If he can beat you, he may call. If he can't, he folds costing the original bettor money if he has the best hand.

Flip the question around: Why are you doing it if you do not personally realize some advantage from it? If you can't think of a reason, then who else besides you receives that advantage?

You can't hold both that you do have a reason for doing it and you do not gain a perceived advantage.

This argument holds no water with me .... why should the button get the advantage of acting after every other player?

if there is an advantage it is an advantage that each player will get an opportunity to have in due course.

He was talking about when he closes out the action ... so the argument about it affecting the way other people decide to call or fold is irrelevant since he is talking about the instance where no other players are making decisions.

Some rooms don't allow it at all, because it slows the game down (unnecessarily) and can generate more ill will at times.

In rooms that do allow it, it should only be allowed when heads up, because both you and your remaining opponent, should either or both decide to engage in table talk, can only help or hurt yourselves.

If it is multi-way still, then both table talk and showing your cards should not be permitted, because either or both of you have the opportunity to hurt the remaining players, and they cannot protect themselves by refusing to engage in your shenanigans. e.g. in your example above, if the AQ guy convinces you not to call (either because he is bad at table talk, or because he thinks his hand is weak or vulnerable), but a third player in the hand had QT and wishes you would both call.

In general, I'm against it. It slows the game down and I just want to get in more hands.

From a strategy standpoint, now I know where your line is for a tough decision. Maybe I thought you were much looser or tighter, in any case, there is a non-zero chance that some other player(s) will benefit from seeing your cards and the decision you make. Yes, it's possible that you would have shown anyway, and no additional benefit will be realized from seeing the cards, but they will know you had a 'tough' decision.

In my home game crowd, there have been problems when hands are turned faced up. Interestingly, sometimes a player things it means a call, other times it means a fold, unfortunately, they tend to act based on what they think, instead of clarifying. So in the home game, it's frowned upon because of the confusion it creates.

In a casino, where room rules vary, as does floor understanding/enforcement, you might find yourself subject to some penalty. In other instances, even though you think you are closing the action, you might be making a mistake and really causing a problem.

Actually, your argument is the one that is nonsensical. It is known before the hand begins who the button is and someone will have it every hand. Having a button also is a natural part of the game in order to establish position. What you are supporting is something that happens in the midst of the hand and there is no predetermined individual who gets to have it. Buttons are also not a means to angle shoot, waste more time, and even possibly collude. All things that can feasibly happen when you allow people to flip over their hand when they are still making a decision.

It is ridiculous to state showing your cards in a headup pot is an unfair advantage. If not specifically disallowed by the house, anyone has the opportunity do this at any time, so it is certainly not unfair. And you may consider it an advantage, but personally I would never be bothered by my opponent turning over his hand at any time.

I think disallowing it is a silly rule, but in some houses it is against the rule, so just try to find out the rules where you are playing.

So you are in a 3-way pot and you find yourself all in after the flop with 2 callers. A large side pot accumulates. Now on the river opponent A shoves all in and opponent B turns over his hand. B's hand has you beat, but A may be on a bluff to win the side pot. If by turning his hand over, B gets some kind of random info that makes him decide to call when he would have otherwise folded and you now lose the main pot because of this. You're ok with that? Should it be allowed?

Or on the river you go all in and opponent A goes all in over the top of you and now opponent B shows his hand. Same thing, B has you beat but you have A beat. Do you care if he gets some info that makes him decide to call when he would have otherwise folded?

He said heads up pot.

Same issue. The multiway pot issues are obvious, but the general narcissism associated with certain on table behavior should be emphasised in these threads.

Yup, said this at the beginning. Anytime I've ever seen someone do this [Legally or not], it turns into an annoying monologue of a guy talking to himself and to a player that refuses to offer a response that goes on and on and on. We will have a William Kassouf at every table.

Where I used to play it was allowed in cash games, not tournaments.

True. (sorry chillrob) But OP did not. In a heads up pot I don't care if you show your hand at any point.

Yeah, I guess OP didn't specify it was headsup, but I assumed it was because I figured no places would allow it in a multiway pot, and no one would be surprised about that.

And sure, turning your hand up and waiting to get a read can slow the game down, but so can all the other stupid s*** that NL players do, with their asking all the questions, etc. If someone is clearly taking too long, just call the clock.

It matters because it is used as an angle and can lead to a difficult floor decision. Many players, especially in lower stakes games, don't understand the intricacies of what constitutes a folded hand.

What often happens is that you table (while thinking), inducing your opponent to table also, believing you folded. You now see that you have a better hand and make the call. He feels cheated and betrayed by you, as well as the casino, and never comes back. Not to mention it's a very messy floor ruling that takes time brings tempers to a boil.

For this reason, showing your cards is highly frowned upon. However, if you still choose to do it, I would recommenced asking the dealer first "Am I allowed to show my cards?" or prefacing the move with "I am not folding. I am just thinking" before you table. This always helps to avoid the confusion and problems before they arise, and is the fair thing to do.

Asking stupid questions generally can't be used as an angle shooting technique or even as a means of collusion as flipping your cards up with action pending can.

I have no problem with this. Suppose rather than player B turning up his hand, player B reached for his chips and as he did that he observed Player A and got some random info which makes him decide to call? Does that meam a player shouldn't be allowed to reach for his chips?

In the case you give player A has no incentive to intentionally indicate to Player B that Player B's hand is good so I have no concerns about collusion here. As far as I am concerned even if Player B is somehow really able to make a determination about the strength of Player A's hand by doing this (and to be clear I do not think that is often the case.... most handing showing is players putting on act about their "difficult decision") such a determination to me would be within the bounds of fair play.



similarly in this case I have zero concerns about anything unfair happening.

In a tournament scenario one might be concerned that Player A might intentionally give information to Player B because they are colluding (chip dumping) but in a cash game scenario I don't see any reason to be concerned about that issue.

My issue with turning up a hand with action pending is that it should only be done in a manner which makes it clear the player isn't acting.

I don;t want a player flipiing his cards face up and forward, leading his opponents (or the dealer) to think he is folding and then have him claim he wasn't folding.

And the time waste involved is also an issue (but I believe that player will waste our time with cards face down anyway)

No, I don't care what he does with his chips. Reaching for chips does not give any other player knowledge of his exact holding. Turning your cards over leaves no doubt.
While I agree with you on the bolded part, the problem is that not everyone sees it that way. This is why we just don't allow it. Take the possibility of collusion or unfairness (whether perceived or real) out of the question.

I know and you know that he's not going to get any real read out of doing this, but I bet he thinks he is going to and if he ends up calling and winning, I guarantee most of the time that the player all in on the flop will claim that it did and cost him the main pot. Let's just agree that allowing it is bad practice and move on.

Heads up , only , really not a issue for me. I doubt many tells are given and I also doubt many folks know how to exploit them all that well. It IS a likely delay issue for the rest of the table, however, and that it something to consider whether it is a good thing to allow.