What ?

I wonder if the dealers who intentionally deal/work slower because of non-tippers even realize that they're only hurting themselves in that they are reducing their expected income from tippers??? The fewer hands you deal, the fewer opportunities you have to be tipped by pot-winners that do tip; thus, hurting your bottom line. The ignorance is almost comical.

No worries. Those dealers are doing a great job of outing themselves.

I always try to do my best work. It saddens me to see the sort of work ethic the "I only work hard when I'm tipped" dealers post here. I don't slow down or half-ass things when I think I'm not getting some sort of bonus.

Here is how I tip and I would like to have any professional dealer's comment their opinion of my style.

I'm a regular at my local casino, and I'm very friendly with all the dealer's, Im pretty sure they all know that I play for a living since I'm there 5 days a week.

Here are my personal tipping rules...

-I don't tip if I take a pot down pre-flop. (Even if its a lot)
-I don't tip If I win a very small pot. (<$10 in 1/2 game or <$20 in 2/5 game)
-I don't tip If it is a chop.
-All other times I tip $1. Even if it is a giant pot.
-If a dealer is doing a very good job and enforcing the rules instead of letting them slide and paying attention to all the action. I toss him $1.

What do all the dealer's reading this think of it. Basically I tip $1 for every pot I win unless it is pre-flop or a chop.

Do you guys get upset when someone doesn't tip on a chop pot? Or if they only tip $1 when they win a big $600 pot?

The way I see it I am tipping you because you rely on my tips to make a living. I am not tipping I got good cards or because I won a big pot. None of that is because of you. I am simply tipping you for your service of dealing the cards and the board.

Thought and opinions would be appreciated.

Diamond -

Thank you for a very rational post, end-to-end. In all professions, there are some of us who take great pride in our work, and strive to do our best, and others who don't care, and don't put out their best effort. It's a spectrum. But one thing is universal - there will be times when our efforts aren't recognized or rewarded. But it always feels good inside to do your very best. So, from one hard-working man to another, I appreciate your efforts.

You read this thread as I did. DHAL and QQ reflect badly on your profession. As a player, it's eye-popping to read their comments, and it really does make me pause and think about my own local dealers. Which ones have that kind of attitude? So you're spot-on with your concerns.

I think you called it right with QQ. According to his own description, he's just a classic case of burnout. That's no way to live; we only go around once in life. He should move on to find a better, more enjoyable way of life for himself. You can't have that kind of bad attitude without it showing through day to day; if he were to leave, the workplace atmosphere would be better, and the customers would be happier. Nobody wants miserable coworkers or grudging service.

As for DHAL, he's so extreme that I'm honestly not convinced that he isn't trolling.

Edit: Interesting theory by JohnWilkes; that would never have occurred to me, but it does explain what really seems to be a caricature of the bad-attitude dealer:

Where I work this is standard, and appreciated. Obviously there are some people who tip more on bigger pots, but any tip I receive is totally appreciated.

Well, leave it to the dealer to ask the player if they meant to tip that much. Some people are very generous in their tipping. It's not your duty to regulate the tipping.

My posts are a censored version of what's really said about stiffs. I'd be banned if I quoted a fraction of what is said about non-tippers in the break room.

Tipping is bad for the economy? I guess if you really can't afford a dollar, and it's breaking you, then I suppose that would be a valid argument. Otherwise, it's a cop out for being cheap.

JDiamond, this guy (kowboykiller) was the first person to jump in support of your post. You would provide him the same customer service that you would a generous tipper, then he tells you that you can beg him for a dollar.

[quote=JohnWilkes I am not sure that is their motive. I believe it is more likely that DHAL wants to reduce dealers' tips. I do not believe he is currently a dealer. Perhaps he tried to be one but failed for whatever reason. He is now working to hurt dealers, not help himself just hurt dealers. Sad.

I believe he is practicing black propaganda. His low post count and refusal to say where he works gives some support to this conclusion. His claims that dealers and floors have a very poor opinion of players add more support.[/quote]

In other words, you fall into the broke/cheap/poor category and need justifcation. And no, I'm still not telling you where I work or giving any personal information about myself on some internet message board. It's creepy and weird you keep bringing it up.

[quote=I wonder if the dealers who intentionally deal/work slower because of non-tippers even realize that they're only hurting themselves in that they are reducing their expected income from tippers??? The fewer hands you deal, the fewer opportunities you have to be tipped by pot-winners that do tip; thus, hurting your bottom line. The ignorance is almost comical. [/quote]

Unless I missed something, who said they slow down because 1 person at the table won't tip?

I rush the non-tippers as much as possible to 1) annoy them. 2) hurry through any hand they may be involved in because there is a greater chance I won't make money. Go ahead and say you'll slow down the game yourself to hurt my tips. That's fine. I can't watch tv while the other 9 players get annoyed with you holding the game up.

You've clearly never dealt with the moochers in a service industry job.

It only comes across as bad if you're one of the ones I'm talking about. I work to make a living. Not to please you.

It's almost cute how some players here think that casino employees are like Disney employees. We're not walking to the break room, so overly happy that mp2012 gave us a dollar on a $600 pot, that took as long as 3 normal hands would have, that we can't contain ourselves. We love the generous tippers, we appreciate the consistant tippers, and hate the ones who stiff us.

You think it's a myth that servers spit in non-tippers' food? You think valet is careful with your car if you don't tip when you drop it off? You think bartenders don't make you wait forever if you stiffed them on the last drink you bought? It's comical how shocked some people are to get just a sample of what is really said about them. I thought it was somewhat common knowledge.

Again, if the guy tips generously, I don't say a word.

But if I think he is getting hustled by the dealer or made a mistake, I say something. I try to protect everybody at the table, even dealers.

Like I said, I am pretty sure that you would have kept the $20 chip and not said a word. Which speaks volumes.

---

And, yes, I know there are dealers like you and your sense of entitlement. Many don't bother to hide it. They complain about their last table. The talk on the rail loud enough for customers to hear.

And they never understand why Mr Easygoing makes more tips.

I once questioned a player about a tip. This guy never tipped more than a dollar. Once, on a decent pot he won, he slid his cards with 1 white chip, as usual. I said thank you and dropped the tip. Then he threw me another white chip. I tossed it back and said, "Thanks, you already got me." I didn't really think much of it other than he forgot he tipped me already. He was offended and proceeded to ask me if he looked like someone who couldn't afford to tip $2. I said something stupid along the lines of him looking like someone who could afford to tip 2 grand.

Most of the time when I'm tipped, I say thank you loud enough for the table to hear, tip it twice on the box, then drop it. I try to make a big deal out of it so the person tipping me knows I appreciate it, and it's not just part of the routine to drop it in the toke box. If someone tipped me more than they intended, there would be enough time for them to notice the mistake. (I say "most of the time" because I'm not going to make a big production out of getting a dollar on $1000. Some players have standards on how big of a pot they tip on. Some dealers have standards on how big of a deal to make out of the tip to pot ratio. You will always get a thank you, though).

But, I'm not going to question every large tip I get, assuming that it was a mistake. That's insulting to players and it holds up the game. Anytime a player has ever questioned a larger tip I've been given (not once has it turned out to be a mistake in the past 5 years), I've called them out on it and told the table to run it by so-and-so before they tip, to make sure they approve. They felt stupid and the rest of the table laughed.

The only time you, as a player, you should point it out is if the dealer is stealing money from a pot. I've known of dealers to push large pots to people, leave a red bird (or green chip, on huge pots) close enough so that the dealer could grab it, thank the player, and drop it before they could look up to see what happened. That's the only time you should get involved.


BTW, to whoever said something about my low post count.. sorry I don't have hours and hours to post on a message board. I'll try to set aside some time on my days off to catch up to yours.

At one of the smaller casinos I play the dealers generally do a decent to great job. It almost exclusively 1/2 nlh (what a surprise!). A one or two dollar toke usaully gets a sincere "thank you very much" or similar remark directed at the tipper. When someone tips $5 (or more) the dealers make a loud "Whoot! Red Bird" that can be heard at all the tables. I'm wondering if this is an effort to encourage all players to tip larger and if so what do folks think about it. It's not a big deal but it does seem to be standard practice in this room.

AW

Seems pretty tacky to me.

Don't see what that has to do with your feelings of self-entitlement, other than possibly suggesting others feel the same way - which doesn't help your argument.

Yes. Working for tips (stupid custom) is less efficient/effective than profit sharing; not to mention it opens the door for unfairness, bribes, etc.


Yes. I owe you nothing. If you are in need, then ask. The worst that can happen is I say I can't help you. If can help, I will.



I kind of doubt you're a troll. But if you are, you're among the most skilled / sickest I've come across.

That may very well be 100% true. Let's give you the benefit of doubt and assume your portrayal is completely accurate. Everyone has some dirty laundry, right?

You're problem is, you are not in your break room. You are not in a private forum for dealers.

You are in a public forum. More specifically you are in a player oriented public forum.


It's obvious you must have some reason for not only wanting to air your dirty laundry in public, but you seem to want to air it out in as offensive a way as you possibly can. I'm not going to question your motives, you are free to do as you choose.

I would like to offer to you for your consideration the possibility that maybe, just maybe airing dirty laundry in public is not a virtue.



.

I do not believe you are a dealer. You have offer no evidence to the contrary. To conclude the following from this is

First post itt bec, for the first time, a dealer tried to get a tip that I didn't want to pay:

Casino Arizona went to an extra dollar on the JP drop so now they take a total of $6/pot at $30. I dragged a small pot, didn't tip. Dealer (who I know for years) waits a sec and then says 'Howard, you've fallen asleep'. At first I didn't say anything but then felt that 'I'll wake up when they stop w/ the extra $1' was deserved. Dealer: 'That's not going to happen anytime soon.'

Way out of line, imo, and am surprised bec dealer's at CAZ are normally pretty professional.

This is the first time I've read this thead. I've played poker in B&M, recreationally, for the past 35 years. I was actually a full time dealer in Vegas for a year and a half in 1977-1978. This was a time of less tourist-type players, and a greater percentage of somewhat mean-spirited grinders. It wasn't always pretty. I also was a part-time dealer at a local casino in Phoenix in 1993-1994. I only dealt on the weekends at that time. This was a time of mostly recreational players. I actually loved dealing, and didn't think of it as work so much. However, it was physically demanding over the 8 hour period, as well as slightly mentally demanding.

One thing that has always bothered me over the years, is the attitude of players towards dealers sometimes, and particularly regarding tipping. It's been my feeling that if you are gambling, and can't "afford" to tip the dealer $1 on most pots you win of a decent size, perhaps you should find something else to entertain yourself. If you're not playing poker for entertainment, but rather to make a living, and can't "afford" the cost of tipping, perhaps you should consider another way to make a living. At the very least, consider playing less hands, and raising more

I don't go to a restaurant, if I think I can't afford a 15% tip on top of the bill. I don't stop by a bar for a drink, if I don't think I can afford a tip to the bartender. For me, the rake the casino charges is the cost of them providing the service. I don't doubt for a second that they will charge the most they feel the market will bear for that service. The system in place is for the dealers to make most of their income through tips. I understand that system, and feel it's my responsibility to incorporate that cost into my playing the game. The fact that I may be able to avoid that cost by simply refusing to tip, and counting on the generosity of others to keep the dealers paid fairly, is something I can't feel comfortable about for myself.

With that being said from a personal standpoint, I never practiced, and was always disgusted by, what might be called "pimping" for tips. I find it abhorent behavior for dealers to show an emotional response to a non-tipper, let alone the suggestions by some in this thread that they would actually perform differently in their actions to non-tippers. For me, one should always strive to act professionally in their work performance, regardless of their personal feelings towards a customer. I always said "thank you" for every tip I received. I never allowed a non-tipper to affect my mental well-being.

Having read many responses in different threads from "DealerGuy", he represents the type of professional I always tried to present myself as to my customers. He talks about doing your best, every day, every hand, to every player. Things will always even out over a period of time, and the job is a rewarding way to make a living.

I have been quite fortunate in my many years of working, and have never been unemployed for one day. However, I have never spent one day that I can remember, not being grateful to be employed. If one doesn't like the terms and conditions of their employment, they should seek other employment. Grumbling about certain aspects of the job never seems to change things much, other than making your own life less rewarding and enjoyable.

Is there a different/better way to structure the system of cost to the poker players in public cardrooms, and compensation to dealers? Perhaps. Is it likely to change in our lifetimes? Probably not.

I say...............shuffle up and deal

Last summer, before the improved promotions, CAZ was running 30 games on weekends and nearly lost their overnight game entirely.

This summer, with the improved JP promos, they're running 45 tables on the weekends and 20+ overnight.

And, as usual, Howard is still complaining and looking for an excuse not to tip.


q/q

I disagree with your logic. If someone does not want to tip, then so be it. I think that tipping has been a way for businesses to pay their employees close to nothing. I tip but I find that a lot of money is taken off the table sometimes. I hate when a horrible player tips like $30 on a $250 pot. A lot of money that could be won is now gone. In nl I would rather have $1 chips in my pocket, rather than tipping from the pot. Every chip is too important sometimes.

I don't disagree with the point that tipping is a personal decision, and if you choose to not tip, then so be it. As a dealer, I always felt that things would even themselves out, and I couldn't (wouldn't) try to exercise some control over that decision. I also see the players viewpoint when, what is considered "excessive" tipping by the horrible/drunk players, appears to remove a relatively large sum of money from the available pool to be won. I also think that evens itself out over time. It may be the same feeling I sometimes get when the terrible player goes on a short-lived winning streak, only to decide at that time that they have something more pressing in their lives to do than stay at the table and lose their stack.

Gratefully, I live in America, where their seat will most likely be filled by a new "terrible" player

I almost certainly tip more than you do.

There IS NO logic to disagree w/. The dealers itt that have demanded tips for their services have only provided their self-interested feelings, not logic.

I request .50 pieces to tip. This way, when you tip a dealer, you essentially get more for your money. This way everyone is still happy. Instead of tipping $1 every hand, just tip .50. Dealers are still getting their money, you're still tipping, and everyone is happy! If they want to b*tch and moan about only getting .50, then don't tip them at all. Same thing goes in waitressing or bartending, if they do a bad job, stiff them. I can't tell you how many dealers I have noticed that are absolutely horrendous at dealing & reading boards (Majestic Star, Gary, IN). I'll stiff them. But if a guy is good at dealing, works fast, I have no problem throwing him $1 or $2. In the end, it all evens out, as for every stiff, there is a spew.

I am a dealer and a player and it makes me sick when I read dealer's on here acting like a tip is a given. Some people don't tip, some people tip much better than other's. In the end it all works out really well for anyone who is, or has been a dealer. You all know, that you/we are well compensated for our job. Be thankful that you have such a wonderful job and if you can't deal with someone who may not tip, or isn't the kindest person in the world, then get a new job!

There seems to be a general consensus that card rooms will levy the heaviest rake the market can bear (this is virtually factual). Dealers itt seem to have no problem w/ this. Players grumble about increased rakes etc etc, but most seem to have good enough economical understanding to appreciate the idea that if they think the rake is too high, then they should complain and stop playing there. By and large, players also have no problem w/ card rooms levying the highest rake the market will bear as it is simply a matter of economics.

Conversely, it is also well understood in economics that the market will seek out the lowest prices for the goods and services it demands. This seems fair, no? With this understanding, why, then, is it that many dealers have no problem with card rooms seeking the highest price for their services, but have a hissy fit at the idea of the market seeking the lowest price for goods and services (in the form of not tipping)? Answer: because it affects them. These particular dealers who could care less about card room fees, but are incensed at non-tippers do so because they don't give a **** about anyone but themselves. More importantly, they don't give a **** about the Golden Rule. And this sefl-righteous selfishness stems from their feelings of self-entitlement because tips are customary (despite the custom being generally illogical), so they feel they have "earned" or "deserve" them.

My recent general cessation of tipping doesn't stem from personal greed. I tipped quite generously for years because I was too ignorant to evaluate tipping and ask myself "Why?". Embarrassingly, I was a sheep, doing something merely because most everyone else did (sadly, the same goes for the vast majority of people in society - not thinking for themselves). And I tipped well because it was self-aggrandizing and made me feel good.

Now, after breaking it down logically, I see no cause for tipping, except when I simply want to or when it is advantageous for me. Then, the latter becomes a question of ethics (ie Am I actually bribing? Is this fair? etc).

Hopefully this opens some eyes.

I'm not a dealer now, nor would I be so presumptous as to try to speak for the dealers. I also agree that dealers who "demand" tips for their services, and rail endlessly against those who do not tip, are out of line.

It just seems to me that we all know that a waitress in a restaurant is paid a horrible wage by their employer, and it is expected that those eating in the restaurant will compensate the waitress through tipping. We go into the restaurant knowing this. Why doesn't the establishment simply charge more for the meal, and pay the wait staff appropriately? I don't know. I imagine the owners of these establishments feel that tipping as a percentage of the income of the wait staff helps to insure good service to their customers.

Perhaps casinos operate with the same way of thinking on the part of the owners. I do know that we all go into the casinos with the same knowledge of the wage structure for dealers as we do when we go into restaurants.

You don't have to tip a waitress in a restauant, and you don't have to tip a dealer in a casino. If you're comfortable with not tipping, then don't.

But, I find it difficult to see much difference between the two scenarios. I'd like to hear people explain why they feel they shouldn't tip a dealer, but think they should tip a waitress. Maybe they aren't people who differeniate between the two situations, but if there are, I'd like to hear from them.