I'm sure a lot of hard work goes on behind the scenes, that as players, we don't notice, or even have the opportunity to see, However, don't these people get fully compensated by the casino for the work they do, as opposed to the dealers, that get paid minimum wage, plus or minus, with the expectation their tips will make up for their artificially low wage?

You may be surprised by this, but in many rooms the floors make the same or less than the dealers (when you factor in tokes). Often they get a more steady schedule/vacation time/benefits that the (mostly part time or extra board) dealers don't.

Yeah, but the floor doesn't have to get toked to make a full salary w/benefits. Suits just still want some of that juice they've grown accustomed to after they've been promoted from dealer. Doesn't make them bad people, but the "Jeez so much paperwork doing this job" sob story while not having to rely on the gratuity of others to pay your bills is kinda silly since they knew what they were getting into before being promoted. But yeah, everyone likes free money.

:thumbsup:

wished my casinos in Maryland did that.
eliminates APPEARANCE problems...
ie: conflict of interest

It's fun to see everyone advocating for their own positions, even myself as a player advocating for low tips for BBJs (compared to custom).

As a low-limit player--the absolute highest I've played is 5/5 PLO and 20/40 LHE, but I'm usually playing much lower than that--I don't have a need for floors to give me exceptional service, such as texting me when a good high-limit game is going or something like that. So I'm naturally suspicious of opening up the possibility for preferential treatment in rulings or skipping a list when floors are allowed to accept tips.

Floor tokes in MD are pooled, so what's the conflict of interest?

Someone who is known as a good tipper might receive preferential treatment. It's not like you give the tip by placing it in an anonymous box somewhere. I've done it before. You just give it directly to the person you''re tipping.

Oh don't be such a Debbie Downer!

Haha.

I know you high rollers need your preferential treatment.

I DO enjoy the preferential treatment! I don't consider myself a high roller.

I threw the bj dealer a 5 and asked for change. He gave me two 2.50 chips.

Im sorry if this has already been stated in this 200+ page thread, but as a poker dealer for many years, I can tell you what a LOT of us dealers are thinking in regards to tipping (keep in mind I was a poker player way before dealing).

[we] in reference to the below refers to myself and MANY other poker dealers
1) if you never tip, We hate you. well hate is a strong word. we just find you extremely annoying, and wish you lose all hands. we wish you never raise any rivers (usually implies your going to win). We HATE you when you win HUGE ass pots especially from anyone that tips a lot.
To make matters worse, if you are a Frequent Flyer of our casino, WE have talked **** and/or complained about you to our peers. The sad reality is, even if you're the nicest person in the world, We just get annoyed that you cant grasp the concept of tipping a dealer when YOU can see other people doing it. And if its a personal choice not to do it, even worse.

2) if you tip once in a while - not the greatest treat for a dealer, but then again, not the worst. We are happy to get something.

3) tip a dollar every hand regardless of pot size - theres 2 parts to this:

Part 1) 10/20 and lower limits : in small pots, $1 is fine. its what we expect. in big pots (big is different to everyone, but we agree that 7-10BB pots is an average "big" pot, tipping $1 is annoying and you are almost as bad as the no tipper. i know, i know, its stupid to think that, right? after all, $1 is better than nothing... but its just the initial feeling we get. cheap ass/skate/etc all come to mind because we know none of these people are grinding these small games for a living (at least probably not successfully, maybe additional income)

Part 2 - bigger stakes 20/40 up to 100/200: theres usually only 2 categories. $1 tipper and no tip. no tip? see above. $1 tipper : completely expected. we dont hate you personally, we understand you are probably playing for a living. we just want our down at the higher limit games to be over because we hate being there. As long as you consistently tip at higher stakes games, we appreciate it very much. ironically you're considered a GOOD person if you always tip at the higher stakes. we're happy to accomodate you.

Theres another category of people that we actually HATE. The no tip + troublemaker. if you dont tip, and you think you are the POTUS, we have a problem with you. especially if you're slowing down the game. dont screw with us, especially on purpose. and dont slow down the game.

4) tip based on pot size - we love you the most, we smile at you, say hi to you, may even say bye to you. we learn your name, may crack jokes with you. we cater to you, even if you temporarily yell at us or hate us for dealing that bad river. we understand, we feel your pain, after all, we just cost ourselves that huge tip.

5) tip based on same industry: dealer on dealer tipping is pretty much expected to be higher than average. typically we take care of our own. mutual respect for dealers to dealers.

As a dealer, I expect to average $1 per hand. I deal pretty fast and my mechanics are excellent. Ive had many people compliment my skills and tell me how professional I am. I average 25-29 hands per 40 minutes. Naturally, I'm smiling all the time, even if I hate you

Im not advocating that everyone should tip. this isnt a please tip us thread. I am just letting you know as dealers, how we truly feel about the different kinds of recs and regs that come into our casinos.

I myself believe in tipping for great service. if a dealer is quick and professional, then tip them. dont think that you only have to tip $1 because "its the norm". if you want to tip $2 or $3, go for it. trust me, noone will complain, and we really appreciate you as a patron. obviously if a dealer is slow and incompetent, then dont tip. although since im in the industry, I never NOT tip for incompetence out of obligation to my peers.

Bottom line is, why should I care what you or any other dealer thinks of me?

To be clear, I comport myself in a way that I think is proper.

I just don't do it so others will like me.

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, but the bolded is wacky to me unless you're playing at your place of employment and you want to keep the peace among your coworkers. Even then it'd be a bit iffy to me. If I had a way to discourage directly my incompetent colleagues from continuing on in my field, I'd take advantage of it.

For example, if a lawyer works with another lawyer (either as co-counsel or opposing counsel) and that other lawyer does something grossly incompetent/negligent and/or against the rules of professional responsibility, chances are the relevant bar disciplinary board will be hearing about it. Lawyers have a bad enough reputation already without allowing incompetent lawyers to continue on as lawyers.

Please don't speak for all of us.

Um. Why is a $200 pot in 10/20 different than a $20 pot in 1/2?


My main gripe with your post is that it makes me feel like people will view me as a greedy ungrateful dealer.


Thank you for your tips, everyone.

This is the main reason I tend to sympathize/even agree with the no tippers (I tip fwiw). That's just ridiculous. So a 7 BB pot (so often times like a 3 BB profit, lol) you are "annoyed" at getting a non-required dollar for maybe two minutes of work? Making this known is a great way to push a lot of aware tippers the wrong direction.

The "not for a living" statement adds to it. What's your point? I don't drink for a living but I'm tipping the same dollar for a complimentary water, cheap draft beer, or more expensive craft beer.

I can see getting "annoyed" at a dollar after a huge all-in that busts a couple players, involved a long tank, and was scooped nuts over second nuts, over third nuts or something but if your attitude in the above is anything like the general feeling (ie I'm getting stink eyed for scooping a couple blinds profit and "only" tossing you a buck) man, I wish I had the make-up/personality to just become a non-tipper.

See what I mean? It looks bad. Keep your self entitlement to yourself and it won't affect my pocket.

you are making more than most college graduates doing a job most people can be trained to do in a few weeks. you need to lose the entitlement. start learning gratitude. fyi i always tip more to dealers who appear grateful for my tips than to dealers who act like they are expected.

So you average 25-29 hands every 40 minutes. Let's pretend that's 27 hands per hour, for 40 hours per week. Let's assume you are in Vegas and earn the minimum wage of $7.25 because your employer offers health care.

That equals $71,240/year for dealing cards.

For comparison, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics has average wages for about 800 jobs here: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000

Here are some jobs in the 70-72k/yr range:
Personally, I expect all casino dealers to deal fast and have excellent mechanics - that's pretty much in the job description, right? It sounds like you are saying that because the average dealer is mediocre and you are better than average by comparison, you deserve to earn 70k+/yr.

This is completely untrue. After a 5 week class you're thrown in with the wolves and can sort of handle a basic 1/2 or to 2/5 NLH table with the occasional trainwreck. It takes years of hard work to get to where it looks easy.

I'm not going to say we "deserve" a certain level of pay because nobody really deserves anything. People are paid what it takes to get them in there doing that job. Firemen are paid crap because so many people grow up dreaming of being one someday and they sacrifice whatever it takes in order to make it happen. Once they get in, they stay until they retire. No kids are dreaming of becoming a poker dealer and there is a high burnout factor. Until they build a machine that finishes the job of replacing us, you're going to have to pay if you want good dealers. I would have never started if it only paid $15/hr.

Also, those low paying college degree jobs generally have a career track that leads to much higher pay, job security, and benefits. We're pretty much maxed out after 5-8 years.

You're never going to convince anyone that what we do is something we've put lots of hard work and effort into to hone our craft. They just see the annual numbers thrown around and assume everyone is making those numbers. Plus 80% of the dealers in the field really ARENT putting in the care that we are. Shame, really.

Time to shoot holes in the crap you post.

So, every dealer in vegas gets 40 hrs per week dealing time? Never takes breaks? And gets health benefits?

1. IF (a BIG IF) you are one of the fortunate 20% of dealers that gets 40 hours ON THE CLOCK, most will be lucky to actually see 5.5 hrs of dealing time. The rest of the time is on breaks. So the 40 hrs is now down to 27.5. That is if you are never "on hold" meaning sitting on your arse waiting for enough players to start another game. And YES, I am also speaking about the biggest and busiest poker rooms in LV. Dealers may be on hold for 2-3 hrs earning that whopping $9 per hr (more than actual min wage).

But lets pretend, because you're a pretending kind of poster, that our dealers are never on hold. YOU sir/ma'am would claim $27 per hr in tips, equalling $42,900 for the year. Yo! Does our dealer ever get to take vacation? Ok lets say it's 2 weeks per year, but honestly, it's more likely 3-4 weeks paid vacation avg in the bigger rooms in LV. So two weeks vacation shoots a $1650 hole in your theory.

But what's the reality?

more than 60% of all poker dealers in Vegas are part time officially. Some have two jobs, just to make ends meat. But they also have to pay for Obamacare. Some of those part timers are in fact scheduled 5 days a week at their respective "Big name rooms". But they are NEVER allowed to reach 30 hours per week avg over a 6 month qualifying period for benefits.

Now our 5 days per week, under 30 hrs per week dealer is only getting maybe 20-22 hrs per week of actual dealing time. Wow, now we're down to $28,350!

Whooda thunk!

FYP

Please don't speak for anyone else in this thread. Your views are shared by a very small percentage of poker dealers (like <5% I'd guess actually agree with you).

Truth. Pit dealers on the other hand...

Uhh, please dont spread lies. any dealer whos been in the industry for more than a couple years thinks exactly like ive portrayed. ive seen it from all of the coworkers ive interacted with at all my places of employment up and down the state. the only ones who dont think like this are the super happy content-where-im-at-and-thankful-they-woke-up-this-morning type and the brand new dealers who dont really know how it works yet.

so yes, a LOT of dealers agree with me. and as i said before, i just tell you how we feel about various types of customers.

oh and regarding tipping fellow dealers even if they are bad... i dont mean absolutely HORRIBLE but like just mistakes here and there, slow, dont control the game. if they were REALLY terrible, id probably not tip. but yea.

regarding wages... i average about 150~200 a day in tips. Never lower than 150, sometimes higher than $200. On a good day, $300+. In no way is this a $70k job, lol.