Thanks for the info re your particular setup; it's interesting to see. You're certainly correct that I would not be OK with doing that job for what you're getting for it and hoping that customers would be willing to supplement my salary by being double-charged for delivery.

As long as the dealer said "thank you" or otherwise acknowledged your tip, he did fine. If you want ones, ask for ones.

At MDL I've seen people tip anywhere between $0 and $50. I think that somewhere between $5 and $25 is about right, with $5 being a dealer who is average to below-average and $25 someone you think is an exceptional dealer or know personally.

Exactly this.

Not a fan of the $2 chip.
A big fan of keeping a stack of $1 chips.

For $500 high hands, I've seen almost everyone tip $25. Might be because they give you the $500 as 4 black and 4 green. Easy to just tip a green.

Maryland Live -- For every hour you play during the week, you earn 1 "ticket". On Sunday, every hour they pick someone from their big bucket of "tickets". Pretty much a raffle, but it's all in the computer. It's different than a bad beat or high hand because the dealer has no involvement in the drawings. In fact, you don't even have to be playing at the time of the drawings -- as long as you have tickets from your weekly play, you have a chance to win.

Didn't know if it was customary/expected to tip the floor guy who ultimately gives you your prize.

I wouldn't think that there's any tip expected for a drawing.

This. Especially if you earn tickets throughout a week and you have multiple tickets with no idea who gave you the winner. I guess if you only had 1 ticket and remember which dealer dealt it you could conceivably tip them, but I wouldn't.

Also regarding Parx, I have never seen someone there win a pot, toss a $2 chip to the dealer and ask to chop it without meaning they are tipping $1 and want $1 change. If they didn't just win a pot it means they need change to tip the waitress.

Why so(?)

It's a lucky pick of the draw just as hitting a high hand or even a BBJ for that matter. I mean, the guy that wins the BBJ/high hand didnt do anything skillful to hit it; and all the dealer did was deal a hand of cards(not much effort in that if you ask me), yet most would tip pretty good on something like that. So what's wrong with tipping the guy a few bucks who walks over to your table with your prize money? Unless he's not allowed to accept tokes(ie) in AC, as you know, Floors can't accept tips, but if it was a dealer and it's someone who works on tips, than anything they do that benefits me(even in the slightest) then I'm going to toss them a few bucks. Maybe I've become tip happy...? I'm just so used to it, I suppose(tip the dealer, the food runner, the chip runner, the masseuse, the valet, the baristas at Starbucks...it never ends! But it's part of my "overhead".

I don't really know, to be completely honest. It might have something to do with the admittedly absurd but nonetheless emotionally appealing idea that the dealer had something to do with a high hand, whereas the floorman has nothing to do with the drawing. But I think for me it really comes down to the fact that I'm not at all used to tipping floors and I'm very used to tipping dealers who are average or better.

Well, if it was a Floor that handed me the money, then no, I wouldn't tip him(only because it's not allowed). But I remember right before the Taj closed their doors they would run these "lucky seat" promotions and they always made sure that it was the dealers who were chosing those lucky seat winners. Coincidence? My guess would be no.

Going back to what you said, I think MANY many dealers have put it in the players head that "everyone" tips 5-10% for these things, and that's just not true at all. Or at least it shouldn't be, cause, all that money comes from the players(and I'm not cheap), but it's the entitlement that some of them believe is what irks me.

As much as I consider myself a very good tipper, there is no way that I am tipping 5-10% on a BBJ. Im sort of new to this thread, and im guessing this has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread so I wont get into it. So I will only say that the dealers at the room where I play will change there attitude towards me if I ever hit the jackpot because they are going to get a much lower tip than expected

FWIW, in practically every room I've played at in South Florida, the standard is 10%. Coincidentally, I was playing 2/5NL at Gulfstream yesterday and they were doing $500 HHs every 30 minutes. I was fortunate to win two B2B. Well, 1 1/2 actually as I tied for the HH and split the second one. I tipped $50 & $25 for my two "wins."


I usually tip $5 to the individual who does the paperwork and brings me the money or chips.

As usual, I've bit off more than I can chew. I have been fundamentally opposed to the dealer add-ons that are pervaisive in casinos accross my state. This forced subsidy affects the game play and is just plain wrong. I've got until the end of the month to come up with a memo before the next casino gaming commission meeting for the board to take action and outlaw the practice. Does any one know of any good posts on here or otherwise that lay out the good arguments against the practice? I want to make sure I haven't missed anything and am as coherent as possible when presenting my memo to the commissioners. My state (Ohio) is new to gaming and most of them are not in the know on poker especially.

I will be posting this in other threads but all help is appreciated.

I'd request a legal limit for them percentage-wise as opposed to a ban. I like the fact that I don't even need to think about tipping if I win a tournament that has an auto-gratuity.

I understand that argument believe me I've used it with tip hounding dealers and floor people at Hollywood after wins/cashes. I don't think it is fair that it is ever a forced tip (disguised as being voluntary.) I think if enough people complained it could be eliminated. Ideally this would cause casinos to start paying a duel rate for dealers dealing cash vs tournament games so dealers aren't hurt financially. But honestly dealers have pretty easy jobs, they really are not worth much more than minimum wage I'd say anyways.

Im confused. Are you talking about withholding a small % of the prize pool for the floor staff, or talking about the small fee before the tourney begins that gives the players extra chips. While neither bothers me at all, I can understand some wanting to do away with the % taken out of the pool, but wouldnt understand why anyone would be against the latter.

Also this is the first post Ive seen from you, so I may have missed it earlier. From what agency/organization are you affiliated with that you would have a voice in this matter?

As in "May I have two $1 chips?"

But, then you could toss back $1 and say, "Here's your change!"

"Dealer add-ons", at least in my usage of the term, means he is talking about ...

$100 + $10 tournament, 10,000 starting chips
$10 dealer add on for 5,000 more chips.

You really not going to pay the extra $10?

Exactly. There's no rational reason to not get the extra chips especially when say the tournament is $300-$20+(($10optional)) dealer add-on for extra 25bb. It is a coerced service fee for rational actors who have any concept of basic tournament strategy or the poker intuition of a mentally handicapped adult from Florida. The argument I hope to convey to the commission is that the casinos are using deceptive pricing and state citizens are harmed as a result of this scheme. Above that, I would like to see the taxing authorities go after the casinos in Ohio and these United States for tax evasion and collect back taxes against the entities that employ these schemes because it is a coerced payment from patron to casino to employee as opposed to directly from patron to employee like traditional tips under IRS Code and Regs as well as Ohio Revised Code (and I'm sure other states' statutes.)

Umm.... OK. I have to ask. Are you getting paid to do this? Or are you just doing this in addition to whatever you do for a living?

Also, why would the casinos owe any additional income tax on that money? It isnt revenue gained, it revenue that goes right back out as an expense.

Not a snowball's chance.
Most states accept tournament takeouts for 'staff' (my guess is that Ohio doesn't allow that)
See also mandatory tips added to many restaurant bills.
States/Fed ain't gonna change.

dickwiggle, your problem with the voluntary add-on is that it's essentially a forced tip?

I think you should avoid playing at casinos that have a forced tip if you don't like it, just as one might not dine at a particular restaurant if he/she thinks that an auto-gratuity charged there is unreasonable.

I'd also ignore where the money is going when evaluating whether to play in the tournament. In AT's example, you get 15k in chips for whatever the structure is and 20% total rake. If the structure is good and you think that you have enough of an advantage against the field to justify the 20% rake, then play. If not, don't. And either way, you know that you don't have to tip if you win so that's a nice perk.

I'm pretty sure all the tips the dealers get from Hollywood are accounted for and run through their paychecks and taxed appropriately. Not sure why you're crying about this.

If you don't want to tip, don't tip. Thinking the clearly stated ahead of time dealer add-on is analogous to some sort of scam is laughable at best. Good luck in the meeting.

I am going to make an assumption here based on what you have written. I am going to assume that this is a crusade you have decided to take up by yourself. Is that a correct assumption?

If it is, I have to ask why? Other than a few extra dollars what do you hope to gain by this? First of all I really dont see you changing the minds of the gaming board, especially in regards to money ear marked for dealers. Secondly, if you have to stand up and be seen at this meeting, do you really want to make enemies of all of the floor staffs of the casinos? How do you think they will react after you do this and you get pointed out the next time you show up to play somewhere? Will it really be worth it?

Thirdly, for arguments sake, lets say you actually succeed in getting this banned in Ohio. Well one of two things is going to happen. Either you are going to cut the floor staff's pay causing either disgruntled dealers or losing the good dealers for your tournaments. Or the rake to the casino is going to go up by this $10 you are looking to save and they will just bump the dealers pay up to the current level they are at.

So after all of that Ill ask you again. Why are you doing this? And do you think it will really be worth it in the long run?

I think building in the dealer tip is fine. Sort of the way a restaurant will automatically charge the gratuity for parties over a certain number. So if they just say "+$10 dealer gratuity" or whatever I'm OK with that. But I agree with DW that the dealer add on is bad idea. It's a tip, but it's like saying, if you tip up front you get more chips. That does affect game play, and IMO the presence or absence of tipping should not affect actual game play. Nontippers shouldnt start with a shorter stack than tippers.

I think you are dead on, I hope to present that besides being unfair to non-tippers, it gives an appearance of impropriety and collusion between tippers and dealer/floor, especially to noobs. I think this is the argument that could sway the committee because their stated goal is to prevent unfairness and impropriety.

Someony axed why I am doing this and what I hope to gain? On my 8th birthday my parents got my a book that encourage asking yourself in the morning what injustices can I change today, then setting about to change it. This is an injustice. This is an injustice that I can remedy-or at least give it the old college try- with about 12 hours of work. Why not do it? I think the entire poker community will be better off if I start a chain reaction and other casinos follow Ohio's casinos leads.

Someony else axed if I care about the casino employees being mad or not making money. No, I don't really care about them more than any of my other fellow people. I don't think the game will be worse because "good dealers" quit because I don't think there is a difference between dealers, it's pretty easy and maybe new dealers will be more gratefool for the position which I would argue is a net positive for society as a whole. Certainly proper taxation benefits society which is a certain externality of changing this regime.