I play a lot of 1/2 at the local casino, and usually if you are the last to act in a hand you can say whatever you want. I played a donkament the other day though, and the dealer freaked out about some talking at the table.

It was probably the third hand of the tournament, and the tables were still filling up. I had JJ and I got 4-bet shoved on by an old guy in the SB. Now everbody was out of the hand besides us two, and he smiled at me and said "It'd be pretty tough to beat me here." I said "jacks no good." Dealer looks at me with a stern face and yells for the floor. He asks the floor guy if I need to be kicked out of the tournament for revealing my hand before the action had concluded. Floor guy wasn't sure..... I said "I'm the last to act it doesn't even matter," and I agreed to go ahead and fold my hand.


I figured that would be the end of the matter, but five minutes later they told me they couldn't allow me to continue, but since they botched the rules they would refund my buy-in. I was also told "if I had been more discrete" I would have just got a warning, but since I transparently revealed my hand, it was a violation of the rules. Oh well.... I only had 25% of my chip stack left anyway.

Question: Is this a fair ruling or not?

You got your whole buyin back and had 25% of chip stack? Wow. Call that a win.

Dumb rule.

But if that is the house rule, it was a fair ruling.

Understand that tournaments are different than cash games. In a cash game when you are heads up it only affects you and your opponent. In tournaments the outcome of every hand impacts all the remaining players.

As such its pretty common that you can't talk about the hands or expose hands in a tournament even if the hand is heads up.

Its not common to throw a player out of the tournament for a single instance of this (obviously if you keep doing it can expect to get disqualified but that would be reserved for the most outrageous of cases). BTW his statement that it would be pretty tough to beat him is also out of line.

Though in many tournaments you could expect to get a penalty.

i know they do this but since you can lie, table talk should be allowed as long as it doesnt surely affect the outcome.

Played in a tournament last week where there was 'zero' table talk allowed, even HU, as to what exact cards or 'hand' either player may have. You could say "I think I have you beat" but you couldn't mention any card rank or 'type' of hand (flush, boat).

Very important to ask for these rules if you are playing somewhere you are not familiar with. GL

Jamie Gold rule

You know why this stuff isn't acceptable in tournaments even when heads up?

Let's say we're 3ways and 2 cash. I benefit from one of you busting out. When you are telling each other what hands you have you diminish the chance that either one of you busts and is effectively colluding.

Even though the effect is a lot smaller with many players left, when you ask him if jacks are good you've revealed your hand (unless you lie which is allowed), your opponent can now take a course of action to make you either fold or call. He may give off fake tells or some other BS but the bottom line is you might come to fold JJ where you otherwise would have called the all in.

Now this all in hasn't happened, all other players have lost value because of a player didn't bust. You cost everyone around you money, you should be absolutely thankful to get a buy in back which I think is ridiculous.

Hmm are you normally suppose to get your buyin back?

Getting your buy in back is a huge win here.

always know the exact and specific rules of any cardroom you play in. sooner or later these things come up and the dealer will rarely be of any help. and many floormen wont know the correct way until you clue them in.

As a general rule you can't talk about your hand or your opponents hand in a tournament unless you are the last 2 players left in the tournament.

You can't lie about your hand. You can't tell the truth about your hand. And you can't mention specific hands that you think your opponent might have.

Typically you won't get thrown out of a tournament. You would get a warning or maybe a one round penalty in an extreme case. And it is kind of strange that they threw you out of this one. Because why would your opponent show his KK if you two were colluding? Also, to get your buy-in back is similarly ridiculous.

Yes, but is disqualification an appropriate penalty?

And it is amusing that telling the truth would be a violation, but lying wouldn't.

a) OP says 'I don't have Jacks' .... a lie that conveys the truth

b) OP says 'I have Jacks' but mucks before the Floor can be called. How does the Floor assess a penalty if he cannot prove the statement was true?

c) OP says 'I can't beat Aces'. The truth that conveys no information.

Getting kicked out of the tournament is beyond extreme; a simple penalty of sitting a round out would've been more than fair/standard if you ask me. Refunding your buy-in was also silly and extreme.

***shrug***

Oh I'm not saying he should be out of the tournament, I was saying that getting refunded his buy in after having 1/4 of the starting stack in hand 1 is just a gift which should never happen.

I'm saying he is guilty of what the floor accused him of and why it affects others. The penalty is a little harsh but I'll leave that aside.

t's definitely not OK to say what you have. However that ruling was overkill, atleast issue a warning. To kick someone straight out of a tournament without even as much as a warning should include somekinda cheating, this is boarderline softplay'ish. Even killing the hand is hard but "doable", but to terminate you like that? Not in a billion years.

THis is the part that confuses me. At a tournament was playing at, players were doing all kinds of table talk (lying about what they had, telling players to stay out of hand or saying that they were very strong). I had some trash hand that I played because it had been a hand that another guy had made a big deal about raising blind with (blinds were low and I was goofing off). I said what I was playing, and flopped two pair. One of the players, an experienced player who had initiated most of the table talk, said that if that really was my hand, I would get penalized. In the end, he did not call the floor.

My question is this: why would be acceptable to tell the table what you have if it is a lie, but a penalty if it is the truth?

Because an idiot was put in charge

Or just as likely the player was wrong about what the ruling would be.

Punishment was extreme but it is pretty standard in live tourneys you cant announce your exact hand