Ruling When Player Ambiguously Declares Hand at Showdown - Page 7 - Poker Card Room

Accurately declaring your 5 card legal poker hand is perfectly fine. It's not an angle just because other people are sometimes complete suckers or aren't paying attention.

Next you guys will be saying it's an angle to throw an oversized chip out as a call, because some players who aren't paying attention or don't know the rules will think it's a raise.

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08-18-2017 , 05:12 PM

#152

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

you are a lousy person if you do this.

I'll go to the box.

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08-18-2017 , 05:27 PM

#153

Playbig2000

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,331

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Just say "I play the board" or nothing.

And no, hopefully EVERYONE with a share of that pot chops. You are trying to angle people out of money they deserve if you say "straight". That is seriously unethical and you are a lousy person if you do this.

No, I'm announcing my hand.

So do you suggest I say "Ok, nobody muck - everyone turn over your hand, there's a straight on the board!"?

What if I just table my hand and let the dealer read my hand? Does that mean the dealer is colluding with me when he announces "Straight" and pushes each card up about a tenth of an inch?

This is live poker played for real cash, it's cut throat / dog eat dog. We're not sitting there having a tea party. Competition is what it is but I do understand it might be a little too harsh for some people. As a law student, don't you realize that?

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08-18-2017 , 06:04 PM

#154

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,881

I'm all for helping someone read his hand. As soon as he lays it on the felt.

Recently I was called and tabled top two.

My opponent looked disgusted and went through about a 45 second card funeral.

He showed me his aces. Showed the player on his other side, showed the dealer,
showed the other players, stared at them some more... and finally dropped them face down.

Dealer mucks them, pushes me the pot. And no one ever told him he laid down the best hand. Board paired.

Are we all horrible people?

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08-18-2017 , 06:07 PM

#155

Playbig2000

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Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

Are we all horrible people?

that's why there is a rule called OPTAH. Can't help it if there are bad players out there.

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08-18-2017 , 06:13 PM

#156

steamraise

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,881

There are those who think OPTAH doesn't/shouldn't apply at showdown.

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08-18-2017 , 06:19 PM

#157

Playbig2000

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Not before the hand is tabled. It's the players choice whether they wanna table or muck their hand.

If there are 4 diamonds on the board otr and there are 5 players in the hand at showdown, if I'm not in the hand and I announce "Does anyone have a diamond"? l'd most likely get a warning (for being a nice guy!? what? how is that even possible? omg I was just trying to help)

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08-18-2017 , 07:44 PM

#158

Didace

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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,877

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdude

Just say "I play the board" or nothing.

Saying nothing is very scummy.

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08-20-2017 , 05:17 AM

#159

DetroitJunkie

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 648

Along with A20 in trying to get this puppy to 200 I give you all this to think about.

RROP Sec.5

6. You must declare that you are playing the board before you throw your cards away; otherwise you relinquish all claim to the pot.

Do with it as you may.

As far as the OP is concerned, the V did nothing wrong, angle or not. So sick of people mucking without seeing a hand then complaining about it.

Good or bad ruling is dependent on house rules for mucking hands.

Last edited by DetroitJunkie; 08-20-2017 at 05:22 AM.

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08-20-2017 , 05:22 AM

#160

chillrob

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I believe that is only if "you throw your cards away". Anyone is allowed to table their hole cards, not say anything, and play the board.

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08-20-2017 , 05:26 AM

#161

DetroitJunkie

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 648

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillrob

I believe that is only if "you throw your cards away". Anyone is allowed to table their hole cards, not say anything, and play the board.

I was just wowed that I forgot RROP had a rule for TH that said you didnt need to show cards to play the board! I need to read it more often I guess.

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08-20-2017 , 09:46 AM

#162

Riverine

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetroitJunkie

Along with A20 in trying to get this puppy to 200 I give you all this to think about.

RROP Sec.5

6. You must declare that you are playing the board before you throw your cards away; otherwise you relinquish all claim to the pot.

Do with it as you may.

As far as the OP is concerned, the V did nothing wrongg, angle or not. So sick of people mucking without seeing a hand then complaining about it.

Good or bad ruling is dependent on house rules for mucking hands.

I think that rule is an example f a few rules in RROP that today's casinos just don't follow anymore, not out of an unawareness but rather that the casinos have chosen to do it otherwise. Another example is that RROP says that in cash games, once a player says raise, they can keep going to their stack as many times as they want, and their raise isn't complete until the hands come to rest. I don't know of any rooms that allow that (though I'm sure there are some somewhere).

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08-20-2017 , 04:52 PM

#163

lawdude

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 10,305

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Angleshooting isn't competition.

Ever hear of the "spirit of the law"? It's a big deal in jurisprudence. We lawyers aren't actually about allowing people to engage in shady, technically compliant conduct to screw other people over. Those arguments are losers in court.

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08-20-2017 , 05:02 PM

#164

DetroitJunkie

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 648

How about saying "I play the board' and throwing your cards in, trying to make your opponent think the board is best hand and do the same - make this puppy an octagon

Ive trolled too far, someone ban me from this thread!

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08-21-2017 , 02:00 AM

#165

Fore

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamraise

There are those who think OPTAH doesn't/shouldn't apply at showdown.

It doesn't. As soon as he showed down and tabled his hand I would gladly read his better two pair for him. That he chose to muck without a showdown is on him. And in now way is your declaration of two separate air or even three pair an angle

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