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Ruling after dealing in too many players for Big O

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05-16-2017 , 01:46 AM

budblown

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,430

Just curious how you guys would rule this.

3-6 Dealers choice. Small 5 table room. Holdem, Pineapple, Omaha, Big O. The game usually plays with the most cards possible (i.e. 8 players or less usually plays Big O, 9 usually plays Omaha).

9th player says to deal him in as he's walking in door from having a cigarette. Dealer deals everybody a big O hand. 7 players to the flop. Once flop is out the dealer realizes they don't have enough cards to continue, calls for the floor.

How would you guys rule?

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05-16-2017 , 03:15 AM

chillrob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,910

^ wouldn't there be enough cards if you skip a burn card?

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05-16-2017 , 09:59 AM

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,411

This is going to end up as a Rule 1 situation. Any reasonable solution works for me. Personally, I would do as Rob says, and skip the last burn card if needed (and make sure the dealer is careful not to roll the deck until then). I would also be fine with shuffling in the burns then doing the final burn and river.

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05-16-2017 , 11:11 AM

Rawlz517

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 58,241

Too much action to call a misdeal. I think dinesh has this right. I personally prefer skipping a burn card over shuffling the burns, but I don't think either is wrong.

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05-16-2017 , 11:42 AM

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Skip the last burn.

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05-16-2017 , 12:13 PM

Aurora Tom

adept

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,167

This seems to me to be the same as running out of cards playing stud. Do whatever your house rules state for that.

On that note how does your room handle that for stud? We need (#of players + 2) to deal 7th street normally. If not, we shuffle in the burns and attempt to give everyone their own card. If there still aren't enough we deal a community card. I guess some places will give the first few players their own card and then if there aren't enough, the rest get a community card. I don't like that idea though.

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05-16-2017 , 12:55 PM

psandman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora Tom

This seems to me to be the same as running out of cards playing stud. Do whatever your house rules state for that.

I'm guessing most rooms never put in a rule about what happens if you deal to many players in and run out of cards in a community board game. So when it happens referring to the house rules probably doesn't result in an answer. The answer will come more from an application of other rules and common sense.

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On that note how does your room handle that for stud? We need (#of players + 2) to deal 7th street normally. If not, we shuffle in the burns and attempt to give everyone their own card. If there still aren't enough we deal a community card. I guess some places will give the first few players their own card and then if there aren't enough, the rest get a community card. I don't like that idea though.

Without looking to check I believe our rule is like yours.

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05-16-2017 , 03:39 PM

youtalkfunny

dumbest smart person his mom knows

Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 21,758

+1 shuffle the burns

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05-16-2017 , 11:11 PM

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Even if you skip a burn card, won't you still have to deal the bottom card, which is considered a no-no?

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05-17-2017 , 01:35 AM

#10

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

yep, use all the burn cards.

or at the flop refund the last player who shouldnt have been in his money and use his cards perhaps shuffled into the remaining cards.

or since it is at the flop refund all monies and declare a misdeal. just because there was action doesnt mean a hand that shouldnt have been dealt, must be played out.

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05-17-2017 , 10:05 AM

#11

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoogenhiem

Even if you skip a burn card, won't you still have to deal the bottom card, which is considered a no-no?

In this case we just let it slide. The only other option IMO is to shuffle the burns with the muck to deal the river. Which is also ok.

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05-17-2017 , 11:00 AM

#12

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

In this case we just let it slide. The only other option IMO is to shuffle the burns with the muck to deal the river. Which is also ok.

You could just shuffle the burns with the last card no need to bring the muck into play. This is what we do in my room when a 9 handed PLO game wants to run the entire board twice.

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05-17-2017 , 04:09 PM

#13

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Makes perfect sense as well.

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05-17-2017 , 10:47 PM

#14

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,220

Just skip the last burn card. I play a private game sometimes and we've done this with 9 handed 5 card omaha plenty of times. Some people didn't like it so we stopped playing 5 card/9 handed but I never saw why it was an issue.

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05-17-2017 , 11:44 PM

#15

dinesh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,411

It's an issue because it skips the burn card, and we have a burn card for a reason. I'm willing to overlook it for a one-off situation like the OP, but would also have issue with it being the default rule for a game, which would come into play every time you have a full table and see a river.

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05-18-2017 , 12:01 AM

#16

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinesh

And it can be somewhat mitigated by shuffling the burns + last card.

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05-18-2017 , 01:14 AM

#17

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

you can play a full table of nine but just have the dealer button sit out each hand. gives a good spot for a two minute break each round for every person. then no adjustments needed. and if playing dealers choice make the choice for a full round.

i

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05-18-2017 , 11:52 PM

#18

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,220

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinesh

We burn and then throw down 3 for the flop.

So why do we need a burn between the turn and river?

I'm curious.

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05-19-2017 , 12:17 AM

#19

chillrob

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Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 20,910

The reason for the burn card is that if a card is marked, you won't get a chance to see it ahead of time; i.e. when the turn betting is happening, no one will see the back of the river card, they'll just see the back of the burn card.

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05-19-2017 , 12:20 AM

#20

zoogenhiem

old hand

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 1,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnivore

We burn and then throw down 3 for the flop.

So why do we need a burn between the turn and river?

I'm curious.

The reason for a burn card is so in case the top card on the deck is marked, someone with a sharp eye wouldn't be able to know what card is coming next. That's why we burn between streets in every game, whether hold em, stud, or draw.

Burning cards during all-in runouts is apparently to make it so it's the same cards that come out if the hand hadn't gotten all-in but is unnecessary from a game integrity standpoint. Re-shuffling to have sufficient burn cards for the second runout of an all-in pot seems pretty pointless, although all the superstitious players would be up in arms if you were missing your irrelevant burn cards.

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05-19-2017 , 03:00 AM

#21

Carnivore

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 8,220

Ah marked cards. That makes sense thanks for explaining.

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05-19-2017 , 10:17 AM

#22

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

If we're that hyper concerned about always having a burn card pick up he burn card from the flop and carefully insert it between the 2nd and 3rd cards in the stub.

We have a burn card for a reason but I don't think it's important enough of a reason to say we can't ever deal 1 hand were we don't have a burn card on 1 street.

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07-01-2017 , 04:29 AM

#23

StGilmore

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

This is standard at my place when we deal 13 card Chinese poker 5 handed.

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07-01-2017 , 05:06 PM

#24

DisRuptive1

adept

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 964

I'd take a random card out of the muck for the third burn card and deal out the last card for the river (if action gets that far).

Quote:

Originally Posted by psandman

This is what we do in my room when a 9 handed PLO game wants to run the entire board twice.

You can run two full boards with burns if you're willing to deal the last card. 36 cards to the players and 8 cards for each board.

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